Talk:George E. Mylonas/GA1

GA Review

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Reviewer: Cplakidas (talk · contribs) 21:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Will take this on in the following days. Constantine ✍ 21:05, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for picking it up -- I thought you might enjoy this one (and Marinatos), and I'll be grateful for your expertise. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 17:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)

1. It is reasonably well written.

   a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):

2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.

   a (reference section): b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):

3. It is broad in its coverage.

   a (major aspects): b (focused):

4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.

   Fair representation without bias:

5. It is stable.

   No edit wars, etc.:

6. It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.

   a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

7. Overall:

   Pass/Fail:

As usual, a thorough, well-written, and informative article. Nothing major to complain about, just some comments:

• His Greek name was not Γεώργιος Εμμανουήλ Μυλωνάς, Εμμανουήλ is the patronymic. It is confusing because Εμμανουήλ has no distinct genitive, but it is implied as 'Γεώργιος [του] Εμμανουήλ Μυλωνάς'. As a rule of thumb, Greeks don't have double names, and even then they should be identified by a hyphen between them.
  • Do you not give the patronymic as part of someone's full name? He always published in English as George E. Mylonas, if that makes any difference. I'm looking at Vladimir Lenin where his patronymic is bold in the first sentence but not given in the infobox or in the Russian. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
    • Not normally. The initial of the patronymic is sometimes used (especially to distinguish namesakes), but the full patronymic is found usually only in formal documents and occasions (e.g. a university degree), and then normally in the form 'First-name Last-name του Patronymic', e.g. Γεώργιος Μυλωνάς του Εμμανουήλ. The Russian use is not really analogous, as there the patronymic is far more prevalent, and you might even substitute it for the last name entirely when talking to someone (e.g. for Lenin, when you speak of 'Ilyich', then everyone knows whom you mean, unless you happen to be Brezhnev). Constantine ✍ 11:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

      OK: so is it better to give his Greek name simply as Γεώργιος Μυλωνάς? I think his English name needs to be "George Emmanuel", as that's what he used in that language. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:56, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

• Precisely on the Greek and yes, of course, on the English. Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

  Done. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:48, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

• Some WP:DUPLINKing in the lede and main article
  • I think these are now addressed (except where the link is duplicated in a caption, which is permitted in the MoS).
• Would John Papadimitriou warrant a WP:REDLINK?
  • Done one better and ILL'd to the Greek Wikipedia.
• he was captured on the island of Samos and imprisoned at Manisa and Smyrna Since Samos was part of Greece since 1912, that is unlikely; he was probably captured while trying to flee to Samos?
  • The Ur-source has Tο 1919 γράφτηκε ως δευτεροετής φοιτητής στη Φιλοσοφική Σχολή της Aθήνας, από την οποία αποφοίτησε το 1922 ενώ συγχρόνως υπηρετούσε στο Tάγμα Προσκολλήσεως της Στρατιάς Mικράς Aσίας. Kατά τις προσπάθειές του να διαφύγει, μετά την καταστροφή, στη Σάμο, αιχμαλωτίστηκε από τους Tούρκους. I'm not totally sure what to make of the commas, but my understanding is that ἡ καταστροφή can only really be the burning of Smyrna and the defeat of the Greek army in Ionia: there wasn't any disaster on Samos for it to be referring to. Any thoughts? I suppose it's theoretically possible he was escaping back to the Greek mainland and betrayed by some locals to the Turks? UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
    • It says 'During his attempts to flee, after the destruction [of Smyrna], to Samos, he was captured by the Turks'. So indeed he was fleeing to Samos but never made it there. Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

      Ah! I'd misunderstood στη. Now fixed. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:47, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

• Greek War Relief Organization is the Greek War Relief Association I think?
  • Good spot; changed and linked UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• The Greek government suspended all archaeological investigation in the country after the war I assume this was due to the civil war? Perhaps a note to that effect, since this is otherwise an unusual thing to do?
  • I haven't seen the connection explicitly made in a source: I'll see if I can find one that makes it. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

  I can't find anyone explicitly bringing in the war as the reason for the ban, but I've added an EFN to point out the correspondence of dates.

  UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:22, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

• Works for me, the context is there. Weird that no-one mentions specific reasons though; I assume it must be considered self-evident... Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

  It's probably worth saying that very few sources seem to know that there was a ban: they report that projects (like the Palace of Nestor) which packed up in 1939 resumed in 1952, but don't seem to notice the post-war gap. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 08:49, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

• He also excavated, in September of the same year, the underwater shipwreck any more details here (partly from personal interest)? Underwater archaeology was very much non-existent at the time.
  • Not so! Christos Tsountas had excavated at the battle-site of Salamis in the nineteenth century; Valerios Stais had done the Antikythera excavation around 1900. A small field, certainly, but one that the Greeks had been doing well for a while. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 10:43, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
    • I know that some explorations had taken place (the Antikythera wreck came to my mind) but as a discipline it did not exist, as the technical means were limited; which is why I was interested to learn more. Did Mylonas also use sponge divers with diving suits? And I assume that he never went down himself? Constantine ✍ 11:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

      All good questions. I'll have a look around the sources and see if something can be found; I know someone found some photographs from the expedition boat not too long ago. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 13:54, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

      • Have a look here: there's some good stuff which adds interest about the project (I've added it to the Artemisium page), though I'm not it would really meet DUEWEIGHT for Mylonas's biography. However, it's pretty clear that he directed operations from the surface, so I've changed the text somewhat. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
        • Thanks, the clarification is enough for GAN purposes. Constantine ✍ 08:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
• In view of his dissertation being about Neolithic Greece, this should be linked somewhere, and possibly a time span given for the reader's benefit.
  • Linked on first use outside a title, which is down in "Honors". UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 14:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
• Made some very minor tweaks and fixes.

I will put this on hold, and have another read-through once the issues above are addressed before completing the review. Constantine ✍ 10:15, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

• Thanks as ever, Constantine. I think I've replied to everything: would appreciate your thoughts on the Samos question and the name. UndercoverClassicist ^T·C 20:20, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
  • I did another read, it looks more than good to me and there's nothing more to add to my comments above. Well done, and thanks for creating another splendid article on a Greek archaeologist! Constantine ✍ 20:15, 21 February 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.