Talk:Fried fish

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 26 August 2019 and 16 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Hurleytylene1.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:53, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Inclusion criteria

There needs to be consensus about criteria which should be met before an item can be included in the list. At the moment, aggressive tandem IP editors are eccentrically insisting on the inclusion of "Lahori Fried Fish".

Google lists twice as many entries for the city I live in ("Fried fish" Auckland) as it does for Lahori ("Fried fish" Lahori). People in most cities around the world eat fried fish. If we are to allow an entry for a city like Lahori then we have to allow entries for fried fish for thousands of other cities around the world. The article will become a massive list of utterly boring entries that no one will read. Of course, if there really is something special about the fried fish in a particular city, that will be reflected in well established reliable sources that can be cited. But that is not the case for Lahori.

I propose that to be included in the list, an entry should either already have a Wikipedia article written about it, or should be accompanied by an appropriate image and reliable source. Again, neither of these conditions are met by "Lahori Fried Fish", which should therefore be deleted. --Epipelagic (talk) 21:59, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I just spent a couple minutes looking into this. "Lahori fried fish" aka "Lahori fish" and "Darul mahi" indeed originates in the city of Lahore, Pakistan (see Lahori cuisine), but it also refers to the unique recipe of preparing and seasoning the fried fish that is known and popular all over South Asia, as far as Cambodia (Lonely Planet: Cambodia p. 110) and Singapore (Fodor's Singapore, 12th ed, p. 71). I see no good reason to exclude this information, and I doubt we need the exclusive criteria you proposed either. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 22:37, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

If there is something special about "Lahori fried fish" then it could be included, though it doesn't seem the references you give can be verified online. What you say will have to be taken on good faith. Are you saying there should be no criteria for inclusion on the list? --Epipelagic (talk) 23:28, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

If it is "known and popular all over South Asia" then I suggest we find a generic term to encompass this style of preparation. I would assume there are regional name-variants. As it is it does seem rather narrow geographically as a term or dish. Or else the info box for the dish could be expanded or rewritten to reflect that it is a widespread, not just one city, based dish. Both the Singaporean and Cambodian cuisine articles on WP have no mention of a dish approximating to it, and the articles are pretty detailed. I would concur with some sort of filtering for inclusion on the list. If we can find a source which links Lahori fried fish to a wider Eastern adoption, then keep. If not, ditch it is my feeling at the mo. Irondome (talk) 00:17, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

It was not hard for me and did not take long to establish that this particular recipe dish enjoys repute and "notability" far beyond its home city, and that it has unique preparation and spicy sauce, in other words "special" - what other version uses pomegranate seeds for instance? I really don't understand all the opposition to including it, it does start to sound a little like one of those "Sorry, but we only had enough bytespace for everyone except you, nothing personal" kind of things. Do you think Hot dog variations is too long and boring? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 01:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

"this particular recipe dish enjoys repute and "notability" far beyond its home city" So give me a link that I can verify this. Ive looked too. It seems to be known in some parts of India. Nowhere else. I dont think uniqueness is the point here. If it is it militates against its inclusion in the list in any event. I think the hotdog argument is a red herring frankfurterly. It looks an appalling US-centric exercise in navel gazing. Let the editors responsible sort that one out. Lahore fried fish appears to be a strictly limited dish in terms of widespread culinary influence. Irondome (talk) 01:43, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I have already cited references to it in Cambodia and Singapore, but it's as if you "didn't hear that"... If it doesn't meet your snobbish tastes, so be it. I will drop this article from my watchlist now, rather than stress out over it or argue any further, it isn't worth it to me. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 02:54, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Dont get stressed over a stupid WP article mate. :) Peace Irondome (talk) 03:00, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

• Spurred by your assurances, Til Eulenspiegel, that it is very easy to establish notability, I set out to find the evidence. Eventually, I had to look at every likely source on the web. The nearest source I can find indicating an international status for fried fish in the Lahori style is here, together with an uncommented recipe here. There are, of course, plenty of local recipies, and there is a local mix used to fry the fish. And there are, of course, a small number of passing references by restaurants and Pakistan newspapers. There is nothing relevant in Google Books, and the "Reliable Sources Search Engine" by A Quest For Knowledge also turns up nothing of value. All this is a loooong way from establishing some sort of general notability. There are more reliable sources on fried fish in Auckland, where I live, a city that has one tenth the population of Lahore.

So there we are... I'm still assuming good faith and trusting that you have not just gratuitously send me off on a wild goose chase, Til Eulenspiegel. So it's time now for you to stump up and disclose the sources you have found. I assume they are off line, since I can't find them on line, so you will need to quote the relevant parts. Thanks. --Epipelagic (talk) 03:10, 24 March 2013 (UTC) I have posted a copy of this on Til Eulenspiegel's talk page, as a courtesy to ensure that he sees it. --Epipelagic (talk) 03:24, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Oh, quote the relevant parts? Well the Lonely Planet merely indicates that it is available in Pnomh Penh, noting "The Lahori fish curry is lahore na (very good in Khmer)"... I guess that means the name coincidentally sounds like the Khmer phrase for very good? Similarly, all Fodors says is that you can get "Indian seafood meals — including mint-flavored Lahore fish" in Singapore. Neither one says any more than that, these are just to establish that it's not just a "one city" dish but has some renown elsewhere. It's more like a style of preparation that just happens to be named after the city it originated in. That makes it different from previous entries since none of them carry the name of a city. If it had been named something else like "Pomegranate and coriander curry fish" instead of "Lahori fish" it probably wouldn't be an issue. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 03:29, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

But those are just casual passing references to fish curry and minted fish. Nothing whatever to do with fried fish. Also, you didn't answer my earlier question, which was "Are you saying there should be no criteria for inclusion on the list?" --Epipelagic (talk) 03:36, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Look, I really don't care anymore. Do what you like, I'm out of here and don't want any more hassles please. Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 03:41, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Okay. So I'm removing Lahori Fried Fish from the list. --Epipelagic (talk) 03:43, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

friend fish include various types of ingredients

i appreciate you if Wikipedia will publish this information 188.113.193.239 (talk) 11:39, 6 May 2023 (UTC)