Talk:Killing of Sammy Yatim

Naturally

A minor police incident with zero historical or socio-cultural impact gets a Wikipedia article. Right up there with video games, cartoon characters, and sitcoms that ran for only one season in the late 90s. Bang up job. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.152.200 (talk) 18:09, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Did you ignore the Aftermath section or just not comprehend it? Spawned protests, inspired police reviews, led to a murder charge. Google News is leading with this story today, over three weeks later. It's definitely not Hitz. InedibleHulk (talk) 21:06, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes, none of that makes this worthy of mention in an encyclopedia. A good rule of thumb for determining whether or not something belongs in an encyclopedia is to ask yourself if one hundred years from now people will still care (and the honest answer to that in this case is, of course, no). The fact that it receives media attention doesn't show that it has any significant impact; I mean, the sorts of things that belong in encyclopedias are things like major wars, important national political leaders, scientific figures, and the like. Not a single murder. This event, while tragic, doesn't have the kind of significance that warrants an encyclopedia article. It's not surprising that it's included, though, since Wikipedia has a very distorted view of significance, and tends to be little more than a mass collection of mostly useless information, with very little effort made to actually assess the importance of the information processed, only to categorize it before moving on to the next bit. It's like you all have Asperger's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.71.152.200 (talk) 07:13, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Please feel free to nominate the article for deletion if you feel it doesn't meet notability requirements, rather than anonymously disapproving. Also, feel free to provide an informative deletion reason. The scope of reporting of the event is reason enough to warrant the existence of the article. ChakaKong^{Let's talk about it} 17:07, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

I would say that now that the upshot is criminal charges, there can no longer be any question of this article's notability. I would say that the original (anonymous) poster's motivations probably have more to do with the prejudice that has been dirtying Canada over the last few years of right-wing rule than with any actual concern about notability. Anyway, there will now be a trial, and if Forcillo is convicted, it will be the first time that a Toronto police officer has been convicted of second-degree murder. Kelisi (talk) 19:29, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

That's a pretty surprising (and signficant) fact. Should be noted in the article, if verifiable. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:48, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

This article is note-worthy. People have interest in this case. Nobody I know will be alive in 100 years any way. Once that fool officer gets convicted (fingers-crossed) for second-degree, it will set a new precedent for future cases. Lots of people are angry and hate James Forcillo. His actions are disgusting and everybody should be reminded. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.166.87 (talk) 23:45, 27 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Racklever (talk) 09:01, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

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• Support there's also plenty of precedent. More recently, I see that Trayvon Martin is a redirect. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 09:03, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Sammy Yatim → Death of Sammy Yatim – Sammy Yatim is not notable, his death is. Racklever (talk) 07:20, 3 August 2013 (UTC)Sammy Yatim → Death of Sammy Yatim – Sammy Yatim is not notable, his death is. Racklever (talk) 07:20, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Blacklisted Links Found on Death of Sammy Yatim

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• https://www.change.org/en-CA/petitions/justice-for-sammy-yatim-charge-the-police-officer-responsible

  Triggered by \bchange\.org\b on the local blacklist

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Blacklisted Links Found on Death of Sammy Yatim

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Missing information - citizen holds off Sammy with bicycle while a contingent of cops had to shoot him to death while he was alone on the streetcar.

Why is there nothing mentioned in the article about the citizen that held off the knife wielding assailant with a bicycle allowing everyone to safely exit the streetcar? One of the major controversies was how one citizen handled the mentally ill assailant better then a contingent of police officers could. I have provided a source so this information can be added to the article.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/toronto-witness-recalls-scene-on-streetcar-before-sammy-yatims-death/article13522919/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Heacock (talk • contribs) 17:02, 6 August 2016 (UTC)

He says he backed up and got off while holding his bike. That's quite a bit different than holding someone off. No such controversy in that article, either. I think most people are glad cops don't handle would-be assailants by slowly backing away and entering an alley. That's just as extreme a reaction as shooting them repeatedly, but on the pacifist side. Neither works and neither bit of info is useful. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:41, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 4 June 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved to Shooting of [Name]. (closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 (talk) 18:35, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

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• Death of Sammy Yatim → Shooting of Sammy Yatim
• Death of Fredy Villanueva → Shooting of Fredy Villanueva
• 2012 shooting of Merhdad Bayrami → Shooting of Merhdad Bayrami

– Consistent naming of articles for Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in Canada and Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States. See the recent RM discussions at Talk:Shooting of Breonna Taylor and Talk:Shooting of Atatiana Jefferson. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:29, 4 June 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose and move to Killing of as per Killing of George Floyd a new precedent established after a very large consensus there. These people were not just shot. They were killed. --- C&C (Coffeeandcrumbs) 18:01, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Floyd was not shot, so there is a difference there. We seem to use "Shooting of" for people who were killed by being shot. I haven't noticed any uses of "Shooting of" for people who were not killed. See the article naming consistency in Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States. —BarrelProof (talk) 19:06, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

• Support per nomination. Other than one or two exceptions, virtually all the "Shooting of..." Wikipedia main title headers refer to fatal shootings. Of course, by definition, all of the 265 entries under Category:People shot dead by law enforcement officers in the United States delineate fatal shootings. Thus, unless there is consensus for a bundling of all "Shooting of..." headers for a mass move to "Killing of..." headers, WP:CONSISTENT indicates that this and all such subsequent and contemporaneous move requests should depict the main headers as "Shooting of..." —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 01:33, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
• Support either "shooting of" or "killing of" - I have a slight preference towards "killing" because I think the fact of fatality is more important than the specific method by which the fatality occurred, and "shooting of" should be reserved for articles about notable shootings in which the victim survived (as a better alternative to "assault of"). But, though I prefer "killing of", I still think "shooting of" is a better title than "death of". Levivich ^{[dubious – discuss]} 21:16, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.