Talk:Danish Bacon/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: FunkMonk (talk · contribs) 14:33, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

• I'll review this one. I'm a Danish speaker, so if you have some sources in Danish you might want help with, feel free to ask. FunkMonk (talk) 14:33, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
• The lead needs to summarise the entire article, it is too short at present.
• The info in the lead is apparently not present in the text, it should be.
• There seems to be very little info on the specific brand itself, and more about export of Danish pork in general. When was the brand created? By who?
• "Although costs are high in Denmark and the industry there is highly regulated, the country has nevertheless" One of the bolded words seems to be redundant.
• Could a photo of some Danish bacon be added? Maybe photos of farms and live Danish pigs as well?
• The article is a bit slim on sources, perhaps something interesting can be found here: http://scholar.google.dk/scholar?hl=da&q=Danish Bacon&btnG=
• "In the decade to 2002" decade to = decade up to?
• Is there perhaps an infobox that could be used to give an overview?
• That's it from me. FunkMonk (talk) 14:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

• Blimey, that was quick. I realised the lede was wanting but was expecting to have two or three months to do something about it before a reviewer picked it up. I have now expanded the lede and addressed most of the minor points above. I don't know when the brand was created: I was never able to establish that, but it has been around for a long time, I remember it being heavily advertised as a child in the early sixties. I have added one photo from Commons. I did contact the Danish Meat Council at the time the article was created and they were kind enough to send some brochures with pictures (which I have now either lost or thrown away) but they either did not understand, or did not bother to reply to the request for a free licence. I don't see anything immediately usable in the scholar results. They are mostly research into pig diseases and without some context it is hard to relate it to bacon production. But I will take a closer look at some of the more promising ones. I don't really believe in infoboxes, they don't do anything much useful and often just serve as a vehicle for adding some uncited POV "fact" by drive by editors. SpinningSpark 16:02, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

I saw the title pop up on the GA page, and I thought it could be an opportunity to learn a little about it, because it's apparently such a large part of Danish export in general. So at this point, I'm happy with what's there, though I still think it would be necessary for the article to have some info about the initial establishment and history of the brand. But if nothing can be found, I'll be happy to pass eventually anyway, since it's an informative article. I'll give you all the time you need to find this info. FunkMonk (talk) 12:14, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I found this interesting timeline in Danish: http://www.danishcrown.dk/125-aar/125-aars-tidslinje/1897-1907.aspx "I 1902 blev selskabet Danish Bacon Agency Limited oprettet med netop det formål for øje, og Danmark blev hurtigt den vigtigste leverandør af bacon til det engelske marked." my translation: "In 1902, the company Danish Bacon Agency Limited was founded, with the purpose that DK became a fast and important provider of bacon to the English market." FunkMonk (talk) 12:17, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

"Danish Bacon Agency Limited skiftede i 1906 navn til Danish Bacon Company," translation: "Danish Bacon Agency Limited changed its name to Danish Bacon Company in 1906" FunkMonk (talk) 12:20, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

There's a lot more stuff there that could be added, for example that Danish export of pork to the UK was halted by the Germans during WW1 and so on, but its all in Danish, sadly. Maybe there's an English version somewhere. FunkMonk (talk) 12:22, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Something similar, if not the same, in English: http://www.danishcrown.com/lib/file.aspx?fileID=567 Much focus on Danish Crown in itself, but also on Danish Bacon in general. FunkMonk (talk) 12:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Interesting passage:

"When the Second World War struck Europe, bacon exports faced another challenge. Some of the ships crossing the North Sea were requisitioned by the Germans, who took all the bacon in the holds. Much of the cargo was also lost during the North Sea crossings. From September 1940 and until the end of the year, 6,500 tonnes of bacon were lost at sea as a result of enemy action. The co-operative meat company Esbjerg Andelssvineslagteri was particularly hard hit by the fact that the UK market was cut off during the Occupation. In the toughest years of the war, there was one week when only seven pigs were slaughtered. By 1946, the numberof pigs being slaughtered had surpassed 50,000, and the Danish co-operative meat companies were successfully re-" FunkMonk (talk) 12:32, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

• I'm not sure how usable that PDF is as a source in itself, but it does prove that there isa lot of interesting and vital historical info out there that should be included. FunkMonk (talk) 12:34, 28 April 2013 (UTC)
• I see the historical context is now shaping up nicely, exactly what was needed. FunkMonk (talk) 23:44, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

• I am about done and ready for you to have another look. One thing you might be able to help with is the Federation of Danish Co-operative Bacon Factories is now called Danske Slagterier. I am fairly sure that is not an exact translation into Danish so I suspect that there was an earlier Danish name that does correspond. Perhaps you can check the Danish pages to see if you can find it. SpinningSpark 12:06, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

"Danske slagterier" appears to be a fusion between "De samvirkende danske Andels-Svineslagterier" (which corresponds roughly to the English name you mention) and "Privatslagteriernes Organisation" (organisation for private butcheries) in 1983. "Danske Slagterier" itself ceased to exist in 2009.[1] I will check out the new additions later today. FunkMonk (talk) 13:20, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Pity that article isn't referenced, but it does explain why there haven't been any ads for the last few years. Searching for "Danske slagterier 2009" didn't immediately produce a ref (still looking) but it did throw up a lot of stuff about them sueing the German government in 2009, which probably means that that case is notable enough to go in. SpinningSpark 14:35, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Searching for "Danske Slagterier 2009 Landbrug & Fødevarer" got me this book which seems to have an explanation of why Danske Slagterier disappeared, but I could not get quite enough from Google snippets to understand it. This is what I've got:

Danish Crown fremlagde i slutningen af 2009 en redningsplan, der skulle reducere omkostningerne med 1,3 mia. kr. på koncernbasis, heraf alene 600 mio. kr. på lønudgifterne. Besparelserne på lønpuljen skulle nås dels ved rationaliseringer, dels i form af lønnedgang for visse lettere arbejdsopgaver. I branchen havde slagteriarbejderne været vant til at oppebære samme høje timeløn, uanset om der var tale om det belastende udbeningsarbejde eller et lettere arbejde i pakkeriet. Fagforeningen NNF afviste blankt kravet om lønnedgang. Bruddet med historien Der blev ikke alene nedlagt og lukket svineslagterier og kødforarbejdende virksomheder i Danmark Også brancheorganisationen Danske Slagterier kom til at opleve opleve en turbulent tid med mange tilpasninger til følge, som ...

...Da blev Danske Slagterier nedlagt som en selvstændig organisation for at blive en del af en nyfusioneret organisation, Landbrug og Fødevarer. Organisationen Danske Slagterier var i 1983 blevet dannet ved en sammenslutning af De fem andelsslagterier i Hjørring Amt blev indledt på et...

Google translate seems to say that the absorbption into the Agriculture and Food ministry in 2009 is correct (perhaps you could verify) but I don't have quite enough to understand the reasons. Unless you can get to a library... SpinningSpark 16:07, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

The quotes don't really explain the reasons, but the 2009 fusion seems to be related to economic problems prior to 2009, and subsequently to unions rejecting that light packaging workers should get paid less, but I'm not sure what happened after that. I've received missing Google Book pages through the resource request before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Resource_Exchange/Resource_Request FunkMonk (talk) 17:33, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not really inclined to request sources I cannot read, I'll leave that to others. As far as I'm concerned the essential information is now in the article - that is, that they were wound up in 2009.

Alright, it isn't too important either, it was more if you wanted to add it yourself. FunkMonk (talk) 19:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• As for the new content, I've never seen the "two sources" format used anywhere else, I think it might be better to just list both sources separately after the paragraph. Apart from this, I think it all looks good now. So if you want to elaborate on the 2009 fusion, I'm ready to pass after that. FunkMonk (talk) 17:38, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

• WP:BUNDLING is an accepted method of citation. I did this in Golding Bird (but not in quite so neat a fashion), which became a featured article; to some extent in Distributed element filter, also featured; and in Waveguide filter, which is aiming for featured status. I would also point out that citation style is explicitly not a GA criterion. SpinningSpark 18:58, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Alright, if it works for FA, it works anywhere. So to wrap up, very nice with all the new historical info, and I'll now pass it. FunkMonk (talk) 19:01, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

Thankyou very much for that. It's been a pleasure doing business with you. Regards, SpinningSpark 19:27, 29 April 2013 (UTC)