Talk:Daniel Khalife

Does this page need to exist?

I question if this man is notable enough to have his own Wikipedia page. Many of the same topics as Khalife do not. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:EmilePersaud 02:04, 7 September 2023 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmilePersaud (talk • contribs)

I think per WP:BLP1E it could be moved to a title that focuses on the event and not the individual involved as they are only notable for this one event. That's my thinking anyway. TLJ7863 (talk) 03:45, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Agree - I think this is a notable event (prison escapes are pretty rare Escapes from prison establishments and HMPPS escort - Justice Data) but I don't think Khalife is. 92.22.126.187 (talk) 92.22.126.187 (talk) 08:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The above was me, logged out. I’ve moved it. Timtjtim (talk) 08:39, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

I agree, his crime itself didn't get much, if any, coverage. His only notable event is the current escape fiasco. I agree with TJL that it would be better as an event page. ~OneRandomBrit | User Page | Talk 07:33, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

I disagree this escape is the biggest news event in the UK at the moment 109.145.122.57 (talk) 07:26, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not news WP:NOTNEWS 92.22.126.187 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 08:18, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the news, but given that prison escapes in the UK are rare, and the emerging controversy surrounding the circumstances that led to the escape, then I'd say this article is WP:NOTABLE and meets WP:GNG. This is Paul (talk) 12:36, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

What has more notability - Khalife or his escape? Jim 2 Michael (talk) 13:10, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

The escape is at the moment, as questions are being asked about how it happened and why someone facing terrorist charges wasn't held in a higher security prison. Khalife himself won't become notable unless he's convicted. This is Paul (talk) 15:49, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

There's been hundreds of thousands of news stories that have been the biggest thing at the time. Not all of them need to be Wikipedia articles. Unless this ends up leading to a bigger event or leads to major changes I wouldn't count it as notable enough for a page. ~OneRandomBrit | User Page | Talk 18:23, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Even after the page has been moved (at least from what I gather), this seems to have been a really minor event. The person in question was not a well known criminal prior to his escape, and was arrested again without incident only a few days later, without having committed any murders or anything like that while he was out. A section of this page mentions criticism of the prison due to being overcrowded and poorly maintained. I would personally recommend splitting off that information into the article for the actual prison, and then also mention the escape of this man and his re-capture in brief terms on that page too since it concerned the prison itself, as well. This article just seems unnecessary for Wikipedia given how minor of an event it was, despite plenty of media coverage. --Dynamo128 (talk) 11:08, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

There's the much wider issue of prison security to consider. What may come out of the investigation into this event is the question of what someone charged with an offence that should have required him to be classed as a high security Category A prisoner was doing in a lower security Category B prison? Why did that person also have a privileged job at that prison? This topic is also probably more notable than we think, given that figures released at the end of 2022 showed that 739 UK prisoners had escaped or been released in error since 2012, and these largely went unreported by the media. Prison escapes occur regularly, and usually get a brief mention on the news or in the papers, not headline news coverage for days on end. They don't usually cause a political scandal either. This is Paul (talk) 19:11, 10 September 2023 (UTC)

Sure, but none of that established long-term notability for this particular prison escape. As far as I can see, the media has already moved over to other stuff. --Dynamo128 (talk) 18:05, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

Proceedings against him for escaping prison & the charges he was already in prison for will be covered by the media. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 09:09, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2023

Arrest Daniel Khalife has been Arrested confirmed by the Metropolitan Police around an hour ago on early morning in Chiswick, West London. 2A00:23C8:8007:6C01:7F:C20D:95B8:F97C (talk) 11:08, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

 Already done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 11:38, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

What sources to trust? major news websites are contradictory

Yahoo News says his father is Iranian and his mother is Engish, BBC says his father is Lebanese The Times says his mother is Iranian, Telegraph says his parents are Iranian

I'm confused --Ernne (talk) 11:34, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Given this page is about the escape, to which his nationality has very little impact, and not about him, I wouldn't worry about putting too much effort into finding the truth there, it can just be left out of the article. Timtjtim (talk) 15:39, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2023

Daniel Khalife was arrested after being pulled off of a bicycle on a canal off Rowdell Road, Greenford by a plain clothes officer from the Metropolitan Police, and was fully cooperative, says Met Police CreatedShots (talk) 14:55, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

It's in Northolt. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

I think we are up to date with this request, save for the minor correction to Northolt. BBC article source (instead of the live feed page) was also provided. --Minoa (talk) 21:29, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Crime cats

Escaping prison is a criminal offence, which there's no doubt Khalife did. We don't need a conviction to know that. Therefore the crime cats are valid. Jim 2 Michael (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2023 (UTC)

Bidfood Lorry image

Any chance we could have an image of a lorry that actually has the Bidfood branding rather than the old 3663 branding? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timtjtim (talk • contribs) 15:29, 18 September 2023 (UTC)

Is this the livery? It's a bigger lorry though, I don't know if we have the type of lorry from RS. All the best: Rich Farmbrough 04:27, 19 January 2024 (UTC).

Requested move 8 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Adumbrativus (talk) 00:47, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

---

Alleged prison escape of Daniel Khalife → Prison escape of Daniel Khalife – User:Toma0910 moved this page to Alleged prison escape of Daniel Khalife, citing WP:BLPCRIME. Technically, they are probably right that Khalife is not convicted of the crime of prison break, however, the fact remains it is widely covered that a) he was in prison, b) there was a widely publicised manhunt, c) Khalife was re-arrested and charged. There is no doubt in any of the sources that Khalife did not leave prison, purely given the fact that he as not in prison while he should have been. Alleging his prison break is in the opinion of this wipipedian an overly formalistic use of BLPCRIME and therefore the original title should be restored. _pseudonym Jake Brockman ^talk 20:16, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support per nom. What's alleged about it? -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:32, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose May seem like an open and shut case, but we should keep ourselves in the clear about legal and WP:BLP issues. PatGallacher (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2024 (UTC)

  Please could you clarify what the legal and WP:BLP issues are? IgnatiusofLondon (he/him • ☎️) 17:17, 12 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support because "alleged" ended when the subject, a detainee, was apprehended outside detention per multiple reliable sources. It's only "alleged" now if a reliable source or ten questions whether the subject was actually the detainee or the one apprehended. JFHJr (㊟) 01:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

  Note: this has been posted at WP:BLPN. The discussion there may not be reflected here. Cheers. JFHJr (㊟) 01:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support – as there is nothing "alleged" about this, common sense would suggest we should remove it. – GnocchiFan (talk) 10:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

  And thank you for correcting what read, in wikivoice, something like a Schrödinger's defendant article. JFHJr (㊟) 16:58, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

• Support. There was nothing wrong with the more concise title Prison escape of Daniel Khalife. Adding the term alleged is unjustified and arguably POV. Andrewa (talk) 21:28, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Terrorism offences

The prosecution is for terrorism offences, but really it's for spying. He tried to offer himself as a double agent to MI6. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c07n005n3mno cagliost (talk) 19:19, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr75kjgrr7go

He created fake documents to give to the Iranians. cagliost (talk) 17:14, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

Location of capture

If I recall, sources say he was apprehended in Northolt. The photo used in "Daniel Khalife pleads guilty to prison escape" implies Khalife was apprehended at or near Rowdell Road Bridge. The towpath here is on the south side, which puts it in Greenford not Northolt (the canal being the border between the two). Appreciate the WP:OR nature of this (and yes, I do play GeoGuessr)... MIDI (talk) 18:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)

Article title

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. No real opposition to new name (non-admin closure) Feeglgeef (talk) 17:32, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

---

Prison escape of Daniel Khalife → Daniel Khalife – The article was moved to "Prison escape of Daniel Khalife" on grounds of WP:ONEEVENT. Prison escapes are certainly unusual and interesting. However, since then, Khalife has also been convicted of the unusual and interesting crime of spying for Iran. His defence was unusual and interesting (he claimed to have wanted to be a double agent and sent them fake documents – apparently a foolish young man rather than a devious mastermind). Is it time to move the article back to "Daniel Khalife"? cagliost (talk) 10:24, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

I agree, we should consider a move request. PatGallacher (talk) 12:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

Comment @Cagliost and PatGallacher: I have converted this thread into a move discussion. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 15:58, 29 November 2024 (UTC)

• Skeptical about using just the name, but do something: The spying/bomb-scare activity seems at least as notable as the three-day escape, so I just edited the lead section to focus more on what he did to get arrested and a little less on his brief escape. The title should also reflect that change of focus. However, his spying/bomb-scare activity doesn't seem to have been especially competent or extensive. Perhaps Espionage and escape of Daniel Khalife? There seems to be more information available in sources than what has been included so far in the article. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:41, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

  Needlessly wordy. Article titles should be WP:CONCISE. cagliost (talk) 23:47, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

  Also, we should be cautious about articles about people who are only notable for one event, but if they are notable for two events then they probably deserve an article in their own right. PatGallacher (talk) 01:03, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

• Support either this move or another target. This still feels very much like a ONEEVENT sort of issue, because every article I found about the spying was liked to his escape, and otherwise might not have been notable on its own right. But as such, it seems like he is known beyond simply the escape, so perhaps moving it to simply his name would be the best fit now. I do think BarrelProofs suggestion is too long, but wouldn't be opposed to a more broad target. TiggerJay (talk) 06:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Support his name. Most concise way to cover the information for which he is known. PARAKANYAA (talk) 22:40, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.