Talk:Ariel (The Little Mermaid)

Requested move 7 April 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: pages moved as requested per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 23:33, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

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• Ariel (Disney) → Ariel (The Little Mermaid)
• Ursula (Disney) → Ursula (The Little Mermaid)
• Sebastian (Disney) → Sebastian (The Little Mermaid)

– Per WP:NCFILM#Character articles, when disambiguation is needed, the title of the film/franchise should be used - not the production studio. Two recent RMs along this line can be taken as precedent: Talk:Scar (The Lion King)#Requested move 18 February 2018 and Talk:Elsa (Frozen)#Requested move 28 February 2018. -- Netoholic @ 17:04, 7 April 2018 (UTC)

• Support Rreagan007 (talk) 17:33, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
• Support per nom. Who'd have known that Scar and Elsa would eventually lead Ariel home. Randy Kryn (talk) 17:44, 7 April 2018 (UTC)
• Do these characters never occur, excepting cameos, outside the little mermaid Series? I think not, and if not, support. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 14:03, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

Sebastian appears in the role-playing game Kingdom Hearts. I took a quick look at Ursula and nothing jumped out, but on the second run I slowed down and found an appearance for her in the Kingdom Hearts game and appearances in Disney's House of Mouse and a related film, Mickey's House of Villains, so maybe a minor second-career outside of her Little Mermaid boundries. I haven't tracked into Ariel's, will leave that one for others to search, like a treasure-data hunt. Randy Kryn (talk) 18:19, 8 April 2018 (UTC)

I think that crossover appearances like Kingdom Hearts acknowledge them as guests "visiting" from their original appearance, not as though the appearance is the continuation of any particular character development arc. -- Netoholic @ 04:17, 9 April 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 15 August 2018

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure) Iffy★Chat -- 09:11, 23 August 2018 (UTC)

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Ariel (The Little Mermaid) → Princess Ariel – Natural disambiguation is preferred over parenthetical disambiguation. 23.25.229.66 (talk) 16:05, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

All other things being equal, natural disambiguation is preferred. But the proposed title is less recognizable and less common than the current title, and those are also considerations when naming an article under WP:AT. Dekimasuよ! 19:05, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

• Oppose per Dekimasu comments above In ictu oculi (talk) 08:49, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per WP:ATDIS “Do not, however, use obscure or made-up names” referencing WP:NOTNEO. I don’t think any reliable source calls her “Princess Arial”. —SmokeyJoe (talk) 10:08, 16 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose not her name. Geraldo Perez (talk)
• Oppose - I also don't think reliable sources use that name. However, I'd like to mention that the 3 person supporters that moved the page in April have actually moved it to a worse title - In addition to the original fairy tale, The Little Mermaid (disambiguation) lists 4 films and 2 red-linked ballets with this exact title and 2 films with "The Little Mermaid" in them, making that disambiguator be very ambiguous. --Gonnym (talk) 15:34, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. power~enwiki (π, ν) 18:25, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose Although she is technically a princess due to her being the daughter of King Triton, she is never actually identified as Princess Ariel (and besides, considering that there's a character by that name in Thundarr the Barbarian, we'd STILL need to make a parenthetical disambiguation to avoid confusion between the two anyway even if that weren't an issue). Weedle McHairybug (talk) 19:30, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
• Oppose - never heard that name used. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 19:47, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Ariel, age 16, Atlantean, child?

I, an anonymous editor of Wikipedia, who should really get a proper account, has recently gotten himself in a small edit war over the definition of the term child. Can someone please settle this edit of two categories. I also did not intend rudeness towards anyone involved on this site.

Correction: I solved at least part of the issue, as there is a category for teenage characters in musical theatre. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:196:8901:4560:B84F:27D4:51EA:2F58 (talk) 02:07, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

See reference 1 in the article. She directly says in story that she is not a child. Also see article child for general understanding what what most people consider a child biologically. Legally depends on the laws of the fictional location she is in, not current laws of any specific current country. Geraldo Perez (talk) 02:40, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

I mean, I guess that counts, but the "Child characters in animated films category" states "the term refers to characters who are understood to be biologically and/or chronologically under the age of majority (generally age 18)", so that is where the confusion began, also the category contains Aurora, who is the same age. 2601:196:8901:4560:B84F:27D4:51EA:2F58 (talk) 02:57, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Biologically is pretty well understood and what most people consider a child is pre-pubescent. Age of majority varies all over the place so isn't really helpful. It is a legal concept. Category likely shouldn't contain Aurora either. Geraldo Perez (talk) 03:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. Sorry for the confusion. 2601:196:8901:4560:B84F:27D4:51EA:2F58 (talk) 03:47, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

German name

In all German versions her name is written as Arielle. (Honestly for us Ariel looks like a male name, so I guess that's why.) Shouldn't that be mentioned somewhere? - Sora 93.133.32.6 (talk) 11:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Many characters change slightly or majorly name in one or few languages, so unless we're talking about a major change concerning several languages (e.g. Moana), it sounds rather superfluous to me. Ninahi8 (talk) 11:35, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

The name Ariel (Hebrew "Lion of God") is rather unusual for a female. See also Ariel (angel). --2A02:908:890:EFC0:9917:A50B:2174:9EB5 (talk) 10:55, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

Direct-to-video and DisneyToon Studios' sequels/midquels/prequels are not officially canon

Should be specified that the direct-to-video and DisneyToon Studios sequels and prequels in general are not considered officially canon and the same Walt Disney Animation Studios doesn't consider them canon. 151.46.20.68 (talk) 10:25, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

The only Disney sequel that's definitively depicted as non-canon is Pocahontas II. The other sequels usually are more of a gray area, and The Little Mermaid if anything counts those sequels as canon due to certain merchandise giving direct nods to them, like the Disney Princess Visual Dictionary. Think of it more like the Lucas-era Expanded Universe if you must. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 12:31, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

None of the DisneyToon Studios films is considered canon by The Walt Disney Animation Studios. Even those who've been released on the big screen first, like Return to Neverland and The Jungle Book 2, by same declaration of TWDAS, they are not even in the Disney merchandise and are not present or tributed in any way at Disney Parks or in any Disney event or video tribute. Even Iago gets always depicted as a villain, like the direct-to-video sequels never existed. And the villains in said non-canon sequels (like Morgana) are not even barely cited in the Disney Villains franchise and line-up or in top-10s, like they were never existed. Even Glut the Shark, despite his silent and very brief and minor role, is infinitely more popular than Undertow, and unlike this latter (who doesn't appear anywhere else like he never existed) he gets his good share of appearances in media. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.68.218.18 (talk) 14:55, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

If that were true, then why the heck did the Disney Princess Visual Dictionary on castles actually reference the events of not just the original movie, but even the TV Series and both Return to the Sea and Ariel's Beginning (even having a section for those merman soldiers from Return to the Sea)? Wouldn't the entire point of a non-canon entry be to not reference it in literally ANY capacity, sort of like how Snake's Revenge or Ghost Babel aren't given ANY mentions in the Metal Gear Solid series (certainly not story-related stuff)? Besides, last I checked, most media and merchandise depict Iago as being reformed, even some Disney Princess-related stuff. Even Kingdom Hearts II used Return of Jafar as the basis for its Agrabah level, and Xaldin was partly based on Forte in the same game. And don't get me started on The Lion Guard. My idea is, if it's not canon, don't make ANY references to it in any media, just like Ghost Babel makes no references in Metal Gear games. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 15:46, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Iago isn't depicted as refored in any media, or at least not anymore or for a very long time (neither in the House of Mouse series). Melody, Morgana and Undertow, to name a few, don't appear in any official Disney franchise or line-up, nor Princess nor Villains nor Sidekicks, same for characters like Zira, or referenced in any way, like they never exiated. Don't blame me, blame Disney and especially Disney Animation Studios that denied and rejected their canon, unlike The Rescuers Down Under, Fantasia 2000, Ralph Breaks The Internet, Frozen 2, that are instead in the official canon. That's why nothing of the failed DisneyToon Studios is referenced in any way in any Disney events and tributes or at Disney Parks. Either for being unsuccessful and not impactful, poorly animated and without the spirit of the original films, and because They weren't made by the Walt Disney Animation Studios. They could have appeared even in Chip & Dale: Rescue Rangers film, but they didn't in any form, only the Classic film/s. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.46.18.159 (talk) 18:39, 30 July 2022 (UTC)

Kingdom Hearts II, for starters, has him being reformed, a'la Return of Jafar. We've also got the Enchanted Tales segment "Follow Your Dreams." The final time Gilbert Gottfried voiced the character, BTW. Iago in that segment is explicitly shown to be friends with Jasmine by that point, which only happened after the events of Return of Jafar. And as far as Zira, The Lion Guard actually USED her as well as Kovu as the antagonists for one of the seasons, and Kovu even returned in a later season. And as I pointed out with a link to the precise page in question, an official guidebook specifically mentions elements from both DTV movies plus the TV Series (most notably, the guards from RTTS were given a portion of the book), and some comics even used the birthorder for Ariel's Beginning (and I think one of the childrens books for The Little Mermaid even had the wall bit from Return to the Sea as a major part of plot due to it unintentionally trapping a dolphin inside). That doesn't sound like they were ignored in the slightest. Want something that actually WAS ignored? Try how the Metal Gear series completely ignores Snake's Revenge, or how, outside of a slight mention in the weapon's description of the Five-seveN and MAYBE when the Colonel AI ended up glitched as a result of Emma's worm, Ghost Babel is NEVER alluded to even ONCE. Heck, in the case of Ghost Babel and Snake's Revenge, there's no plans to even rerelease them online by Konami due to their non-canon status. The fact that the DTV sequels still get rereleases points to them still viewing them as canon instead of, say, blotting out their existence. Weedle McHairybug (talk) 20:03, 30 July 2022 (UTC)