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Latest comment: 2 years ago27 comments14 people in discussion
The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Support only in that it's better than this title. Open to better suggestions. FWIW, and I know that Wikipedians are allergic to capitalizations, in common usage often lowercase "elder" tends to just mean an older, elderly person. In the case of someone regarded as a respected Elder, in the sense indicated in this article, "Elder" is often capitalized. YMMV. - CorbieVreccan☊☼19:01, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support for the reason you described. Also, when you said that slur was still in use legally - were you referring to legislation drafted by white people, Native American people (in a reclaimed sense) or both?Stephanie921 (talk) 22:37, 30 July 2022 (UTC)Reply
English-speaking Indigenous groups in Canada and the US use "Indigenous", not "Indigene". This is English Wikipedia; we use "Indigenous". - CorbieVreccan☊☼18:29, 1 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Oppose – The use of "North American Indigenous" as a proper name is pretty recent, and pretty Canadian. On the other hand "North American indigenous" goes further back and is still quite common in sources, so I'd support North American indigenous elder. Dicklyon (talk) 17:29, 3 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
The Chicago Manual of Style, the CBC, and other news outlets all now capitalize "Indigenous" when referring to the people/ethnicity. We support this at the Indigenous Wikiproject and have been standardizing it across the 'pedia. - CorbieVreccan☊☼21:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Probably replying to the relister is pointless, as he's not taking sides in the discussion. And you haven't pointed out where any discussion might have occurred; if it has, but only within the project, that's problematic per WP:CONLEVEL. In any case, MOS:CAPS will apply, and if you look at sources you'll see that most relevant contexts in which "North American Indigenous" is found are actually dominated by lowercase indigenous. Most of the capitalized ones over the last couple of decades have been for the "North American Indigeous Games", a proper name, or a mention of the 2007 book title "North American Indigenous Warfare and Ritual Violence"; other uses have already been strongly dominated by lowercase indigenous, though that's gradually changing. After all those style guides cause the usage in books and such to change, Wikipedia will follow. For now, I don't think so. Dicklyon (talk) 23:54, 6 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Per The Chicago Manual of Style Online: We would capitalize "Indigenous" in both contexts: that of Indigenous people and groups, on the one hand, and Indigenous culture and society, on the other. Lowercase “indigenous” would be reserved for contexts in which the term does not apply to Indigenous people in any sense—for example, indigenous plant and animal species. A parallel distinction arises for the word “black,” which many writers now capitalize in references to ethnicity and culture (a usage that CMOS supports) but not, for example, when it is simply a color.
Per the Associated Press style guide: Indigenous (adj.) Capitalize this term used to refer to original inhabitants of a place. Aboriginal leaders welcomed a new era of Indigenous relations in Australia. Bolivia’s Indigenous peoples represent some 62% of the population.
Per the APA style guide: Likewise, capitalize terms such as "Native American," "Hispanic," and so on. Capitalize "Indigenous" and "Aboriginal" whenever they are used. Capitalize "Indigenous People" or "Aboriginal People" when referring to a specific group (e.g., the Indigenous Peoples of Canada), but use lowercase for "people" when describing persons who are Indigenous or Aboriginal (e.g., "the authors were all Indigenous people but belonged to different nations").
The WP conventions page you linked doesn't say much about capitalization. Has this been discussed some place? As to the external guides, sure, we recognize that many have come around to recommending capitalization. But we don't see that reflected very much in sources yet. Dicklyon (talk) 17:20, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Your google search on "sources" doesn't indicate quality or accuracy of those "sources". There wasn't debate about it on here as it's not up for debate anymore in the field; capitalization is the standard. - CorbieVreccan☊☼21:25, 7 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support if the scope of the article is expanded to include North America, not just two countries within the continent. Regarding previous comments, Indigenous is now capitalized in AP style and Chicago style when discussing people. Lowercased sources are going to be the older sources (or referring to plants, etc). Yuchitown (talk) 01:08, 8 August 2022 (UTC)YuchitownReply
Support If the article discusses all of North America, then the proposed name does seem more accurate. I also support the capitalization of "Indigenous" as per the previous arguments. Pliny the Elderberry (talk) 03:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
Support "North American Indigenous elder" is likely the term that should be used, per CorbieVreccan's many explanations. A wordier alternative would be "Elders in North American Indigenous cultures", which highlights the plurality of Indigeneity across the continent but might also be misconstrued to be a list. James Hyett (talk) 12:55, 8 August 2022 (UTC)Reply
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.