Talk:American Horror Story: Apocalypse

Special guest stars section

I want to add a special guest star section, similar to that of The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story. -DJordan18 (talk)

Joan Collins and new cast members

On the article's introduction, actress Joan Collins is deemed as a "new cast member," which, in previous seasons articles, denotes actors and actresses who had debuted in the series within the main cast of the respective season, but we do not know yet if Collins is a main cast member or not. Is it relevant to insert her name in the introduction as a newly-added MAIN cast member when there is another two new who have just joined the cast as well? --Mrs. Hastings 19:53, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Frances Conroy, Connie Britton, Dylan McDermott, Taissa Farmiga, James Cromwell and Lady Gaga

My friend works on AHS and has confirmed all of the above will be featured in Apocalypse so I am going to add them. DO NOT remove them, they are confirmed by someone WHO WORKS ON THE SHOW. --

That is not a reliable source, and their mentions will be removed. TedEdwards 17:37, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Excuse me but my FRIEND WORKS ON THE SHOW. SHE IS ON SET EVERY DAY. You have no idea. I am changing them back and if you revert my edit I WILL REPORT YOU GOT THAT?????? Magicladasha (talk) 18:59, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Jessica Lange

I am adding Jessica Lange my friend works on AHS and she was seen on set by her

That is not a reliable source, and her mention will be removed. TedEdwards 17:36, 31 July 2018 (UTC)

Poster

Here is the current issue about the poster: AlexTheWhovian decided by himself that we should change the original poster for the season (as seen here). I reverted it back to the original one, but I was told by TedEdwards that the poster should be the most recent released one (as seen here). Fine. So I follow what TedEdwards told me and I uploaded the most recent poster, as we can see in the file history. Now, here is the surprise. AlexTheWhovian decided to revert the file to a previous released poster, despite that poster not being the most recent one. So here are my questions:

1. What are we supposed to do exactly? Are we supposed to use the most recent poster or not? If we don't have to do that, then why should we change the original poster in the first place? It is way closer to the general promotion made by FX.
2. Why AlexTheWhovian get the right to decide alone which poster should we use on the page? Here is what he told me when he revert the most recent poster: "the two posters were released around the same time, so one is as good as the other. Stick with the first one uploaded." That's still a clear contradiction of what TedEdwards told me in the first place as my poster is the most recent one. So, now we can adjust the rule because he decided so? I don't get the fairness of the situation.

It is really hard to know what we're supposed to do on the page when two users are saying two different things about the same topic. Hope to get some answers. Thanks! Lady Junky (talk) 00:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

It's upsetting that it took three reverts for you to start a discussion, instead of deliberately edit-warring. Let's cover your points. Naturally the original poster was the most used - it was released for weeks, before the new one was released. Do we only use the same old sources instead of newer ones because they existed for longer? No. So, why should the same apply here?

I did not decide it "by myself"; updating the poster is common practice in both the Film and Television WikiProjects. When two or more posters are released at roughly the same time, then it is up to the first editor to notice to upload either of them, and if there is contention as to which one should be uploaded, then a discussion should take place. If you had been the one to upload the new poster first, other editors (myself included) would then have to discuss it if we believed it needed to be changed. How, for example, would you have dealt with this case? Six posters released at the same time.

Hope you got your answers. -- Alex^TW 01:42, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

What's really upsetting is the fact that no one really try to explain you anything unless you're being a little more vocal than majority of most recent users. Anyways, not a big deal anymore. Now, my answers. Keep changing posters as they are released do not make a lot of sense to me. In the case of your poster and mine, they have two days of difference, fine. But, admitting they release a whole new poster in like one week and this one is green or orange, the excuse won't exist and so we change it. So we change the colors again? And again if another is released with different colors? So, we continiously keep changing the colors depending on how the new posters are made? Would it not be much more easier to simply use the original poster - the one that the general audience know the most about and identity the season with - and stick with it, rather than keep changing it?

For the rest, as far as I know, there is no rule about when it is acceptable to consider a poster "new" and "different enough" from the previous one to change it by ourselves. So who/when do we decide this kind of things?

Anyways, thanks for taking the time to answer and giving me some explanation. Lady Junky (talk) 05:03, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Edit-warring isn't exactly vocal, it's more policy-disrupting, but that's a different topic. It might not make sense, I agree. It would be easier, sure. There's a lot of practices in the Television WikiProject, which I'm a major member of, that I don't believe should happen because they don't make sense. However, I'm not one to argue with common practice, and we don't always go with the easiest practice but the one that's agree on the most.

If a new poster was released in a week, then yes, we would update the poster, and colour if necessary. They only know it "the most" because it was released first - who's to say that the original won't be forgotten and this will be the most known? Neither of us can say either way (on either the first or last being the most well known). As for when we decide, I've already answered this: it is up to the first editor to notice to upload either of them, and if there is contention as to which one should be uploaded, then a discussion should take place.

As an aside, even if we kept with only one poster, it also makes sense to use the poster where the most common colour matches best. For example, with the original image, the most common colour was #F53115 (the colour used as #F73114, basically identical), which is compliant with neither white or black, and thus had to be changed to #FF6048 (compliant on black). The changed colour doesn't fit well with the poster itself, does it? With the current image, the most common non-grey colour is #613F60, which is already compliant with white and requires no adjusting. -- Alex^TW 05:17, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

Key art

The poster with the red baby is the show's main key art. It's the poster that's being used everywhere for the show's marketing, including the show's official social media platforms. Nobody is using the "eye" poster, it was just another teaser. It's also why the title text is on the top, whereas it's in the corner of the eye poster. --DrBat (talk) 19:30, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Could you source where it says the baby is the main key art and the eye poster is just another teaser? Otherwise what you're saying is WP:OR. TedEdwards 21:38, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

the fact that's it the artwork used for all the marketing, including the show's official site, and its twitter and Facebook pages. A variant of it is also used for the Amazon and iTunes episode purchases. DrBat (talk) 22:07, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@DrBat: So, it's your personal opinion based on what you've personally seen around the web? -- Alex^TW 02:17, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

it's not my opinion, it's the artwork that's used on FX's official website with the key art for their other shows (which are also the images that the Wikipedia articles for those other shows use, like It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia (season 13), The Americans (season 6), The Assassination of Gianni Versace: American Crime Story and Legion (season 2)). --DrBat (talk) 03:10, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

What they display may not always be what we display. The Film and Television WikiProjects commonly update promotional posters to whatever was last released, until the home media cover is released. -- Alex^TW 07:54, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

except as I showed, all the other Wikipedia articles for those programs are using the photos from the official website. This is the only article that uses a different photo. --DrBat (talk) 13:12, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

As someone generally uninvolved (I don't watch this series), I would agree with DrBat regarding using the red poster. There's nothing in MOS:TV as far I can tell that states "you have to use the newet poster available"; it simply states "For season articles, a season-specific promotional poster or home media cover should be used, or possibly a season-specific title card if one exists". It's clear the red poster is their official key art as it's used at every possible official platform: FX, iTunes, Amazon, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram. Drovethrughosts (talk) 13:22, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Nor do I. Using the same argument, nor does MOS:TV state that we have to use key art. There's a lot of things that aren't in MOS:TV that are generally accepted as common practices, and one of those is updating the posters to the most recent released (it's carried over to WP:FILM too, or maybe it carried over from there to here). So, I guess it's whatever suits each article the best. I'll also repeat what I said last in the above related discussion, as it still relates strongly:

[E]ven if we kept with only one poster, it also makes sense to use the poster where the most common colour matches best. For example, with the original image, the most common colour was #F53115 (the colour used as #F73114, basically identical), which is compliant with neither white or black, and thus had to be changed to #FF6048 (compliant on black). The changed colour doesn't fit well with the poster itself, does it? With the current image, the most common non-grey colour is #613F60, which is already compliant with white and requires no adjusting. -- Alex^TW 14:27, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

the difference is, with the movies the final poster is usually the main one that is used for the rest of the marketing. Nobody has been using the eye poster, it's the baby one that FX is using everywhere.

and so what will you do with the colors if the baby image is used for the DVD cover (which, judging by how it's being used everywhere else, most likely will be)? --DrBat (talk) 16:03, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Then we use the orange version if it's the DVD cover, as we typically replace promotional posters with the home media cover art, and we just make do. (Assuming what the DVD cover will be now, in advance, is WP:CRYSTAL, however.) For now, we pick the best option available. -- Alex^TW 16:12, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree that the "red baby" art is the most prevalent, and I have not actually seen the "purple eye" art anywhere but here. Obviously it's just a placeholder until we get a DVD, but the red baby also seems to better represent what the season is about.— TAnthony^Talk 17:09, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Are we allowed to use the cover for digital releases (e.g. Prime video) on Wikipedia as well as the DVD cover? If we are, that might solve the dispute. TedEdwards 13:44, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

I also agree. The red baby poster is far more prevalent and what most people will associate with the show. I'd never seen the eye artwork until this article.Gagaluv1 (talk) 22:16, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

I too agree that the red baby poster is more used and relevant for the now promotional purpose of while the show is airing. If it is what the official social media and websites are using why shouldn't it also be used here until the DVD cover art is released? Brocicle (talk) 04:37, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

Several editors are now saying that "the red baby poster" is the key art, but just by typing "ahs apocalypse poster" into Google, I can see 3 different posters with a red baby on them. So which one? And without a proper source saying somehow the major poster is the red baby one, it's WP:OR. TedEdwards 11:55, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

I wouldn't really call it original research if the official confirmed social media and websites are using it as their main promotional material now. From what I can see official sites use one or the other of the red baby so I don't see why we couldnt just choose one of them, it wouldn't make a difference considering both are being used. Brocicle (talk) 13:14, 21 September 2018 (UTC)

The official poster for Cult was the first one released and AHS’ social media pages designated it so. The same should have been done for Apocalypse. The “red baby” art was unveiled with no caption. This fiasco could have been prevented if context was provided. Mockingjedi (talk) 13:40, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Erika Ervin

I can't edit the article because it's semi-protected at the moment, but Erika Ervin (who previously played Amazon Eve in Freak Show) has confirmed her return on Twitter after some fans noticed her in the recent trailer.

2A00:23C5:DC83:E200:85C6:327B:88B8:979D (talk) 23:32, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Because I know you guys prefer sources that aren't Twitter, I found an article that breaks down the trailer where they confirm that Erika will be in the new season;

2A00:23C5:DC83:E200:CA4:9387:2510:92A0 (talk) 12:05, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

References

Draft:List of American Horror Story: Apocalypse characters

I've started a draft that will eventually be moved to List of American Horror Story: Apocalypse characters when it is ready. If someone wants to fix the broken citations on the article before I can, they can find the citations on this article. So please contribute. TedEdwards 12:07, 20 September 2018 (UTC) I've now fixed the broken citations but please still edit the draft. TedEdwards 15:02, 20 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 September 2018

C8CSTAR (talk) 12:25, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

Episodes titles : Return to Murder House and Traitor

 Not done Unsourced. -- Alex^TW 12:52, 23 September 2018 (UTC)

See also section

I added in a see also section which included List of nuclear holocaust fiction (as this season is a fictional work involving a nuclear holocaust) and List of fictional Antichrists (as this season has a fictional depiction of an anti-christ character). Chairhandlers removed these from the article saying they were not related to the season itself. What do other people think? Umimmak (talk) 03:15, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

I think just having the categories is ok. They lead to lists of fictional nuclear holocausts and Antichrists anyway. TedEdwards 10:30, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I suppose that's fair. I hadn't noticed that one could easily access the list articles through the categories. Umimmak (talk) 10:34, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Hi. We usually use categories for that kind of edit. An example is "[[Category:Fictional depictions of the Antichrist]]", which is already in the article; however, I don't think we have a category about fictional nuclear holocausts, but you can create one. - Chairhandlers ^{(Talk to Me!)} 15:39, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Timeline/continuity error

I'm just wondering if there should be a mention of an error in the timeline... The bomb that causes the apocalypse goes of in 2020... But in Hotel's finale, when John (The Ten Commandments Killer) as a ghost, is reunited with his family at the Cortez, it's Devil's Night 2022... Which is after the apocalypse. Alinblack (talk) 22:21, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

Entirely original research. TedEdwards 22:47, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

I mean, that's not really the relevant policy since you can find plenty of secondary sources discussing this; it's not OR if it's something which can be cited ([1], [2], [3], [4], etc.). I don't think it warrants inclusion though; at least not yet. Wikipedia typically doesn't include compilations of fan-theories or continuity errors, even if they're well-sourced. Umimmak (talk) 00:53, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

Not relevant to the plot and also constitutes WP:TRIVIA. Brocicle (talk) 00:57, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

I'd at least wait until the season is over, I have a feeling everything will make sense then. --DrBat (talk) 16:01, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Special guest stars

In the series' previous season articles, there is an exclusive section for actors who have been credited as "Special Guest Stars". In Apocalypse, Frances Conroy has been credited as such thrice and Lily Rabe, once. Why is their name being listed in the recurring and guest cast sections? --Mrs. Hastings 16:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Please see this discussion here. Brocicle (talk) 17:22, 15 October 2018 (UTC)

Landmark Crossover Season

I have noticed that in the previous pages for American Horror Story seasons, in the top heading, there is usually more of a description to the season. However, a new trend that began last season in Cult in which there are only two small paragraphs, one detailing the season airdate and renewal information and another paragraph that lists new and returning cast members. This season, though still a typical season of American Horror Story, should be considered a landmark season as it is the first season to have major crossovers as a main storyline. Since this is such a landmark season, then there should be some sort of expansion in the top heading besides the airdates and cast members. There should be some reference to how this season is "highly anticipated", as this particular crossover season was to be expected for some time. There should be some emphasis on how this season is a distinct crossover and landmark season. 98.113.156.38 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Yeah I agree that the lead section isn't really ideal; it should really cover all the main points covered in the rest of the article. I assume that once the season is over it'll be easier to give an overview of the plot of the season. If there are reliable secondary sources about how this season in particular was particularly anticipated, that could also tie in to a section on promotion/marketing where the fact that this was promoted as a crossover with S1 & 3, but you'd need references to back up the claim that this was landmark, highly anticipated, and was to be expected. Umimmak (talk) 02:40, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

I understand that the season being "highly anticipated" with "fan-favorite" characters returning may not be necessary. However, the lead section should have at least some mention to the fact that this is the crossover season, a theme that was announced a while back, therefore not like any other season. This crossover distinction needs to be in some form highlighted in the lead section header. 98.113.156.38 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

What I don't like about your edit is that you made a third paragraph, when the lead section should be concise. Maybe make the first paragraph American Horror Story: Apocalypse is the eighth season of the FX horror anthology television series American Horror Story. It was announced on January 12, 2017, and premiered on September 12, 2018. It has been described as a crossover between the first and third seasons of the show. As this statement makes no intrepretations and does not make mention of fan-favorites etc. it does not need any additional sourcing per WP:LEAD. It's also a concise sentence, which goes into more detail later in the article. TedEdwards 21:37, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

The sentence highlighted in red is perfect to add in the lead section. However, I must point out that in the lead sections of previous American Horror Story seasons (except Cult) there are three if not four total paragraphs in the lead section. These paragraphs include accolades (which can be added on later), a brief season description even production and concise statements from the creators. I feel for such a distinct season, Apocalypse should get the same treatment rather than be left totally bland like Cult, which did not even mention the Emmy nominations for Sarah Paulson and Adina Porter, something all other AHS lead sections have. I understand your position but I feel that there really should be more to be added to what can really be considered a landmark season. 98.113.156.38 (talk) 21:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I've only just noticed this message. I'll put the red text in then on this page. By the way 98.113.156.38, why don't you make the Cult lede less bland IYO. If you do that, I will see it and if it needs tweaking, I can do that, but as the page is not semi-protected, you can make WP:BOLD edits, as I don't know what you would put in, whether a brief plot description, production info or awards won. As for this page, as the season is still airing, so not so much info can be put in the lede and the info doesn't exist, but maybe you could add a few things when the page isn't semi-protected anymore (which will be sometime next week). TedEdwards 11:41, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 October 2018

please change "Vivien tells them that Michael's father is neither Ben nor Tate, but the evil of the Murder House." to "Vivien reveals that Michael is the Anti-Christ." because the original text does not does not explain Michael's past. The text exclaiming him as the son of "the evil of the Murder House" fails to provide an important piece of the plot of this season: That Michael is the Antichrist, and that Cordelia and the Coven are attempting to stop him and prevent/undo the Apocalypse. It has already been established that Michael is indeed the Antichrist (refer to citations below). Citations confirming Michael as the Antichrist: - Variety Interview with Cody Fern: (https://variety.com/2018/tv/features/cody-fern-american-horror-story-apocalypse-interview-1202976609/) - TV Guide Interview with Cody Fern: (https://www.tvguide.com/news/american-horror-story-apocalypse-cody-fern-michael-langdon/)

Citations recounting the events of the episode: - Tv Line recap: (https://tvline.com/2018/10/17/american-horror-story-apocalypse-recap-season-8-episode-6-murder-house/) - EW recap: (https://ew.com/recap/american-horror-story-season-8-episode-6/) Julian mrz1999 (talk) 17:26, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Adding all that will place the summary way over the word count. Per MOS:TV, summaries are to be between 100-200 words and it's at 196 as it is. A summary is that, a summary. Not every detail must be listed which is why there is a seperate episode article linked in the episode title which allows for a 700 word limit for a more expanded and detailed plot. Brocicle (talk) 17:35, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

If you check, i did not add much. it does not go over the word count. All i suggest is that the important detail of Michael Langdon being the Antichrist be added. Julian mrz1999 (talk) 12:46, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

You did originally before editing and removing majority of it and my response. Wikipedia keeps a history of edits. Brocicle (talk) 16:49, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ♪♫Alucard 16♫♪ 22:06, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

I am able to, thank you! Also, can someone please talk to Brocicle or something, he's really weird and keeps harassing me. Julian mrz1999 (talk) 1:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Episodes which haven't aired on television

@TedEdwards: what policy prevents adding information like writer/dirctor from episodes before they air on television? If they're on FX they're still there, legally available, and can be verified by anyone with an account. Umimmak (talk) 13:37, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

@Umimmak: Anyone with an FX account, yes, but that's not most editors, so it can't be verified, so just wait 12 hours, when the episode will air generally. TedEdwards 13:49, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Wikipedia allows paywalled sources, obscure print books, and plenty of other materials which aren't available to most editors -- they're still verifiable and can be used as sources, though. Again, what policy are you basing this on? Umimmak (talk) 15:13, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

It is regarded by most editors that we don't take info from these sort of things. Also, since the episode is airing generally in 12 hours, it can wait a bit. There is no rush. TedEdwards 15:16, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Source referencing crossover season

@Lady Junky: @Jamiejajj: Regarding the dispute over what source should be used to reference the fact that this season is the crossover, I believe we should discuss it here. If we reach consensus, the page can be requested to be unprotected (see User talk:Dlohcierekim#Protection at American Horror Story: Apocalypse). I believe the secondary source is better as a) if it ain't broke, don't fix it and b) secondary sources are regarded as more ideal if available. I'm hoping the dispute about whether the sentence saying Evan Peters will be directing an episode is over. If not, discuss it in a separate section on this talk page. Pinging Dlohcierekim so they know a discussion has started. TedEdwards 16:07, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I may not be familiar with every rule of Wikipedia yet... but since I started editing on the Apocalypse page, I have always been told by more experienced users that tweets should be replaced by media articles as soon as possible, because they are much better sources. Which is why I am following this rule, and chose to support it (and continue to). Also, when we check the history of this page, it is clearly something that we did on this page since day 1; again, with multiple "experienced users" doing it. I don't see why we should act differently now that the season is nearly over. As for the Peters' sentence, there is no real discussion here. We have an info supported by an accepted source, and no given source contradicting this info. Once the ep will officially air (in some hours now), this discussion will be done, so we just have to wait. Lady Junky (talk) 16:25, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Ratings Bar graph at the end of page

Every other page of every season of American Horror story has the same ratings bar graph at the bottom of the page after the ratings table. Why is this season the only one not to have both the ratings table and ratings graph available together? Either every AHS season page has the ratings bar graph available or none at all. 98.113.156.38 (talk) 21:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Added it. TedEdwards 20:20, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

Thank you. 98.113.156.38 (talk) 21:18, 16 December 2018 (UTC)