Talk:Aerith Gainsborough/Name debate archive

Aerith or Aeris

Since her name has been officially changed back to Aerith in localizations, shouldn't we change the article name to her original Aerith Gainsbourg, and mention that it was translated Aeris Gainsborough in older translations? Compare Gulg Volcano. - Gilgamesh 00:00, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

On what basis is this "official"? Her page on the Square-Enix website still says "Aeris". Hard to see how "Aerith" in Kingdom Hearts is more canonical than FF7 itself, except that KH is more recent. The Final Fantasy VII page does a better job than this one of explaining the romanization issue (note that in Japanese, she's "Earisu", which is an approximation of "Earth" with Japanese characters - interesting that there's such a hangup on the equally-valid readings of "th" and "s" as transliterations of "su", yet nobody complains that the "E" and "A" are switched in English). Anyways, this is a hot-button issue, and saying that Aerith is an "official" renaming may be an overstatement. Invalidname

The "Dear Friends: Music from Final Fantasy" 2005 concert tour, officially sanctioned by Square Enix, lists her song in the program as "Aeris' Theme". Again, how can it be claimed that that the Kingdom Hearts use of "Aerith" is "official" when the company is still using "Aeris" in newer materials related to FFVII itself? - Invalidname 7/14/2005

Also, if Kingdom Hearts is uber-canonical, then all references to Squall Leonhart should be changed to "Leon", which is what he's called in KH. - Invalidname 7/14/2005

In KH, Leon is said to have changed his name because of his shame in being unable to stop the Heartless from destroying his world. So, it's not really the same as the Aeris/Aerith thing, there's an actual storyline reason for it. - Anonymous Contributor, 7/25/2005

The biggest problem is the inconstancy that Square has in it's localization of games – in some areas they use Aerith and in others they use Aeris; however, if you go by the original name used in Japan then we have Aerith as the official name. This is the name that is used on official Final Fantasy VII merchandize that has been released in Japan. As for the website referred to above – it might as well not be taken into consideration, in part because it has not been updated in an extremely long time - darkstar949 14 July 2005

You're right that it's a matter of inconsistent localization, and the only name that's plausibly right is what they used in Japan. Unfortunately, that means changing the name of the article to エアリス, which isn't going to work for an "en" locale site. -invalidname 7/16/05

Actually, there are several instances of official Japanese FFVII literature (intruction booklet, players guides, art books, etc.) which spell the name in romaji/English, along with with the katakana spelling. And that official romaji spelling is "Aerith." Druff 01:36, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

My argument though is that in the game itself, as presented to an English-language audience, Square chose the spelling "Aeris", not "Aerith". The names used on merchandise in Japan are nowhere near as relevant or interesting to English speakers as the name that appears in the game itself. If Square now prefers "Aerith", that's fine, but they have not made that preference in any way clear, as indicated by the mixture of "Aeris" and "Aerith" spellings that appear in the related universe of merchandise, spinoffs, etc. If they go with "Aerith" in the localizations of Advent Children or Dirge of Cerberus, then that would be a far more compelling claim for an "official" name change. But we're not there yet. -invalidname 7/16/05

This isn't aimed at you, darkstar949, because your post is very reasoned and thoughtful, but I do think there's an element of the FFVII contingent that seizes on the "Aerith" spelling as a means of saying, in effect, "we know better than you proles who only played the game." Just because they're louder, it doesn't mean they're right. -invalidname 7/16/05

From what I can tell, 'Aerith' is the earliest translation. I remember, way back in '96 when all the game info was starting to be released, she was always referred to as 'Aerith'. But when the English translation was made it became 'Aeris', which is an acceptable transliteration of 'エアリス' (since, as many of you may know, there is no 'th' sound in Japanese, thus they compensate for that by using the 'su' sound). I guess, since most English speaking game players know her as Aeris, Square-Enix have decided to use Aeris, though rather inconsistantly. :/ --Ludi 11:46, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

The official name is "Aerith", through confusion in teh translatingit was changed. User:220.239.189.51

I suppose this discussion has pretty much blown through to its conclusion by now, at least until Advent Children is released in an English-speaking country, but I thought I'd mention a few things. First, wasn't Final Fantasy VII translated by Sony, not Square? I was surprised to find that Sony's involvement wasn't even mentioned on the talk page here. I'd hardly consider Sony's translation to be "official", particularly opposed to the various products released in Japan with Aerith's name written in romaji as "Aerith". On another note, doesn't anyone find the "Name Spelling Debate" section rather vitriolic, or at least POV? Eh, maybe I'll try to clean it up and tone it down later, if nobody minds. -- Rablari Dash 11:20, 2006-01-02 (UTC)

A question- Since they're both pronounced the same, and since the Japanese do not have the "th" sound, what was the *point* in making the change from Aeris to Aerith in english speaking countries? From an english speaking standpoint, the spelling of "Aeris" is closer to what the Japanese were saying when they spoke Aerith's name outloud ('Heiressu' if I'm not mistaken)

Most english speakers, upon seeing "Aerith", will pronouce it "Air-ith", which, quite frankly, sounds terrible...

Now, don't get me wrong, I've accepted the change, since it seems clear that Square-Enix want "Aerith" to be the way her name is written. But since it should *still* pronouced as Aeris(Heiress)... I fail to see the point and it's bound to confuse people - in fact, we'll probably end up with the English translation of Advent Children saying "Air-ith".

This means that we'll have gone from the not unbearable situation of Aeris' name being spelled "incorrectly" but being pronounced right to the opposite. Which will be *further* from what the creators intended. Gah!

It should have just stayed Aeris for the English speaking audience. After all, do we have this much fuss over the fact that Terra was called Tina in Japan? (195.92.168.174 20:15, 12 January 2006 (UTC))

Er, another question- on what basis is the assertion made that 'Aeris' and 'Aerith' are pronounced the same way? Certainly, both are pronounced (and spelled) alike in Japanese, but I can think of no sensical reason why the same should be true in English. After all, Sephiroth in Japanese is also pronounced with an 's' sound at the end, and you won't find anyone claiming that the name is meant to be said as 'Sephiros.' 67.9.105.197 07:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Here's my take: If we use Aerith, we'd have to use names like Cain, Gilbert, Terah, Tina, Rokku, Mash, Tida, Ceres, Citan, Cefka, Ryukku, and countless others. Change it to Aeris. And don't change it back. Crazyswordsman 04:31, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Why would we have to do any such thing? I suggest you read the preceding discussion before jumping in: the problem is that both "Aeris" and "Aerith" have appeared in English language material relating to the game, whereas "Cefka" has pretty much always been "Kefka" in English language literature. – Seancdaug 04:56, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm willing to make the contention that we should be using those names. I believe we should respect the original names if we respect the media. It would seem strange to say "I love your games, but refuse to call the characters by the names you gave them." Doesn't that seem very rude? And ethnocentric? At the very least, the commonly used English name and the original Japanese name should both be mentioned. -- Rablari Dash 07:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places):

"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').

No, the katakana for "Earth" is NOT "earisu" (エアリス), but "aasu" (アース). The game, "Fantasy Earth", for example, has the katakana of "ファンタジーアース". Earth Day is "アースデー". So while "Earisu" might be a derivative of the word, don't stretch the connection too much. --151.202.50.185 19:44, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."

The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:

http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg

The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth（大地）の読みかたを変えて命名"

--Squall of SeeD January 2006

The article itself says that Aerith shouldn't exist,. There's no TH sound in Japanese, nor does it have the letters. Even in japanese, the name is pronounced similair to the English spelling of Aeris. The original FfVII, as well as tactics, and parasite Eve all reference her name as being Aeris. Yes, Kingdom Hearts uses the name Aerith, but it's an entriely different world, and Squal has become Leon. You don't hear anybody arguing the name Leon should be used for Squall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.26.88.88 (talk • contribs) .

"Th" is a valid, though rather antiquated, romanization of the katakana character "ス." Without any other point of reference, yes, the most sensible and "correct" way of rendering the name would be "Aeris." However, as was said by Squall above, Japanese language materials have presented her name in both kana and romanized form, and the romanized form they have always used has been "Aerith." Given that our Japanese source materials use "Aerith," and more recent English materials use "Aerith," it seems to be the most logical choice for this article, as well. – Seancdaug 13:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I would like to mention a few things to this discussion, as it apparently refuses to stay dead (yes, I know I'm contributing to that). First, I'd like to thank Squall of SeeD, both for his scans, and for his excellent Advent Children FAQ (That is you, right?). I just haven't had the opportunity to thank him for that, hope he reads this.

Anyway, I think there's an assumption being made here that isn't necessarily valid: that Japanese artists always name things in Japanese. Specifically, it seems as if the arguments here are assuming that "エアリス" is the original spelling, and that "Aeris" and "Aerith" are attempts at romanizing the katakana. However, the scans that Squall of SeeD has produced say that she was "named after an alternate reading of the English word earth". The two kanji right after EARTH, 大地, disambiguates the meaning, which is "the ground", or "the land", rather than "The planet Earth". My point is that "Aerith Gainsborough" is her proper name, and that "エアリス・ゲインズブール" just tells a Japanese person how to pronounce the non-Japanese name. It is common for characters in modern Japanese stories to be gasp not Japanese. Thus, they do not have Japanese names. Amazing how that is, isn't it? They're supposedly such a closed, elitist culture, and yet they write stories in which the characters are not of their own race.

Also, ス is a common way to transliterate (sheesh, we have a word for converting kana to roman letters, but not one for the other way around?) the English consonant blend "th". They don't have anything better. Well, ソ is also used. It depends on the flow of the word.

So, I contend that "Aerith" is the original, correct spelling, even more so than "エアリス", and that it's probably pronounced how it looks: "Air-ith". "Air-iss" is just the closest set of sounds in the Japanese language, and thus, how they would probably pronounce it, even realizing that it is not perfectly accurate. It's difficult to make sounds that you were not raised to speak, and often equally difficult to recognize the difference between them. For example, it's difficult for most native English speakers to correctly pronounce the Japanese character つ. And just as Japanese speakers frequently have trouble differentiating between the English "L" and "R", English speakers have an equally difficult time correctly pronouncing the characters らりるれろ, which sound similar to both "L" and "R", but not exactly like either of them. -- Rablari Dash 07:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm just throwing this on here in a few places for information purposes- the IMDB has listed the US voices for AC, and they have her US name as Aeris.

From the full cast list on IMDB- Maaya Sakamoto .... Aerith Gainsborough (voice: Japanese version) Mena Suvari .... Aeris Gainsborough (voice: English version)

Now, argue away about proper or inproper translations, but alot of people here have voiced that we should "wait and see what the english version of AC names her," so there you go.

For my two cents, I'm fairly neutral on the subject. I use Aeris, but have no problem with people using Aerith. But I think if the argument swings back to "what US sources" use, well Kingdom hearts is hardly canonincal. So if one were to argue that point, the useage of Aeris in FF7 and AC would certainly overshadow what KH used, considering that her appearence in KH amounts to a cameo. Onikage725 01:30, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure I'd take IMDb's listings as gospel: it's listings are culled from submissions, so there's no guarantee how reliable the information is. I'd wait until the US DVD release. – Seancdaug 02:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

This the most ludicrous form of pedantry I've ever seen on Wikipedia. "Aeris" is obviously the appropriate spelling for an English-language encyclopedia article about the character. "Aerith" is nothing more than a silly fanboy shibboleth. --24.131.209.132 00:46, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not just silly fanboy stuff because the Japanese do transliterate it as Aerith most of the time. However, I agree on Aeris, since FF7 is the main source on her and that was how they did it there. AC remains to be seen, and KH is merely a cameo . Some point to KH, but that no more solidifies Aerith than FF Tactics did Aeris, newness aside. Non-canon appearances don't count for this sort of thing. I mean, the Chrono Trigger pages use Magus, even though his Japanese name was Mao. They mention both names, but use the name anyone using English wiki is likely to use. That's my 2 cents anyway. If AC uses Aerith, it seems that's Square's final resolve on US spelling, and they have the right to spell it as they wish. Onikage725 20:32, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

In the Sephiroth article, they mention the reference in Tactics, where part of his name is written '-phiros' instead of '-phiroth'. So, if a more recent spelling takes precedence for kingdom hearts, then why not for tactics? Personally, I think it's a silly argument to make. If you're going to write the english spellings, then it makes more sense to list the english name. Heck, look at some of the other arguments you'd otherwise encourage...
What about in dragonball, where the romanizations are constantly given different spellings? How do you choose which one to use? For most cases, they just use the english name in wikipedia.
To be perfectly honest, the only (valid) reason I can think of for using the name 'Aerith' instead of 'Aeris' is that 'Aerith' seems to be more popular with the fans that have kept interest in the franchise alive. I don't know if that's enough or not. But what I do know is that that isn't enough to call her 'Aerith' specifically in the section of the article where she's mentioned in Tactics. The way the article is currently written, it says that she appears in tactics as Aeris, but the article still calls her Aerith for that section. So, I'm editing that one section, because I don't see any argument listed for calling her Aerith in her Tactics appearance specifically. Bladestorm 00:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

We're referring to the same character in that section, thus, we use the same name for consistency, and in an attempt to avoid confusing the reader of the article. So unless you want to make the argument that the "Aeris" in Final Fantasy tactics is supposed to be an different character named "Aeris", rather than the same character... It just isn't going to happen. -- Rablari Dash 07:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Ok... The issue in Aeris vs Aerith isn't Kingdom Hearts, it was an article in a strategy guide put out in Japan... The guide said the name was a katakana spelling of earth, which 1. is eroneous (yes, god-forbid the Japanese not get the English language correct)and 2. Wouldn't lead to Aerith being her name, but it would lead to Earth being her name... Perhaps Gaia or Terra to make it more feminine. The creators of the guide didn't understand the Latin, not English, origins of the name. Aeris (not Aerith) is the latin word for both Air and Aether. What is Aether? Aether is the mythical substance that the universe was made of. The spelling of Ether (which is a chemical that puts people to sleep) in the games would be more accurately Aether, though even the Aether in the Aether theory is often spelled Ether... Now, doesn't that seem to fit Aeris, as the face of the Lifestream? The word Aeris shows up (logically) in the latin Opera Carmina Burana, as does Materia. What is carmina burana? Well, it is the opera that the lyrics from One Winged Angel were pulled from (the original game version, I'm not sure about the new one on Advent Children) Earisu would correspond perfectly with the real latin word aeris, but the word Aerith didn't exist until the katakana earisu was incorrectly romanized as Aerith in the original FF7 game (at the same time, Cloud was called Claude, because Kuraudo could be read as cloud or claude, among other nonsensical renderings) So, her name is Aeris... Not Aerith... The strategy guide and the subsequent fan battle (with the aerith supporters) and eventually Kingdom Hearts were all wrong on this matter.WhateverTS 23:32, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Your premise is incorrect. The Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book does not say that "Aerith" is a katakana spelling of earth, it says that "Aerith" is a name based on the English word earth. There's a difference there. While your theory is an interesting one that would be worth researching, it does not in its current state invalidate the claims of the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book, which is a far more authoritative source than the English version of the game, which was translated by Sony, not Square. -- Rablari Dash 07:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but katakana renderings never use ri as a devoiced consonant. Therefore, Earisu would make no sense. At the very least, if that was earth, it would have to be Earusu. All consonants taken from standalone consonants in foreign words end in u, except for the t like and the d line, which end in o, and the standalone nasal n. No, the book that everyone keeps quoting simply made a guess, and a bad one at that. It was, essentially, incorrectly reverse engineered... As for the Aerith that shows up in the debug menu, you'd have to use Claude too if that were the case. 65.115.123.226 14:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Gainsbourg?

Uh, where in the world does this "Gainsbourg" buisness come from? I'm very familiar with the Aeris/Aerith controversy, but I have never, ever seen the character's surname spelled "Gainsbourg" anywhere; it's always "Gainsborough." Does someone have a cite for the "Gainsbourg" spelling? 68.226.239.73

In Tetsuya Nomura's original character design and in the Japanese versions, it was Aerith Gainsbourg. "Aeris Gainsborough" was crafted for Final Fantasy VII in English. But now the name has reverted back to the Japanese canon. - Gilgamesh 00:18, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Uh, that may be true about Nomura's character design, but it's definitely not spelled Aerith in the Japanese version of the game; like invalidname noted above, there is no way to spell the "th" sound in Japanese. The Japanese version of the name is Earisu.

Researching this on line, I've been able to find a lot on the Aerith/Aeris controversy, but almost nothing on "Gainsbourg." A Google search on "Aerith Gainsbourg" yields just three pages of results, most of which seem to be copies of this article (as opposed to over four thousand hits for "Aerith Gainsborough" and over seven thousand for "Aerith Gainsborough").

So, again - can you give us a reliable citation for the assertion that it was originally and/or is now "Gainsbourg?" 68.226.239.73

Try Aeris Gainsbourg. - Gilgamesh 02:04, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Uh...yeah. That gives not very many more hits - actually, significantly fewer hits, if you put quote marks around it as I did with the other searches - and none of them look particularly enlightening, none of them are from any official source, and none of them explain the reason for the controversy. 68.226.239.73

Update: is [[1]] the Nomura concept art you meant? It does say Aerith, but there's no surname listed at all. I don't speak Japanese all that well, but I can read katakana, and I don't see anything that looks like either "Gainsbourg" or "Gainsborough" even in the Japanese text. 68.226.239.73

Hmm...I don't know. "Aerith Gainsbourg" was how she was introduced in the preview information back in 1997. - Gilgamesh 17:52, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Huh. Curious. I don't know, but unless there's been some source since then that listed her name as "Gainsbourg," I'm leaning toward saying the official version is still "Gainsborough," even if the first name has reverted to "Aerith." 68.226.239.73

Okay: Unless somebody expresses strong objections, I think I'm gonna change the article name back to "Aerith Gainsborough." There are very, very few sources that have EVER spelled Aerith's surname as "Gainsbourg," and I see no reason to think it's gone back to that just because Kingdom Hearts had her first name as "Aerith."

So...objections? Anyone? Bueller? 68.226.239.73

Sounds fine to me. – Seancdaug 00:11, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan to me as well, however, we will have to make sure that anything that references the old name (images, pages, ect) are updated as well. darkstar949 0826, 17 Aug 2005 (CST)

Sloane? Nah, I'm okay with it. I can't really argue any better than I did. - Gilgamesh 22:39, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

While Aerith's name is spelled properly and correctly in the rest of the article, the title is still "Aerith Gainsbourg." I highly doubt that anyone would be looking for a "Gainsbourg" considering that the name hasn't even been used in the actual games. -djvelma

True, but a comparatively minor detail. Redirects will point the user to the right place, regardless of what the article is called. Which is not to say that "Aerith Gainsbourg" is the "right" name, or that we shouldn't even consider changing it, but a ensuring that users can find this page isn't really a problem, IMO. – Seancdaug 00:11, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sort of new to having discussions on Wikipedia, but I just wanted to ask: Who is the person who wants the listing to use "Gainsbourg" at her last name? Personally, I think it would be better to use "Gainsborough". Her last name is listed as "Gainsborough" on all of the official guidebooks, documents, manuals, websites, and merchandise, which I think is compelling enough to have the article title changed to "Gainsborough". ... Also, I noticed in the editing form of the article, somebody included a small note in the header asking that the name "Gainsbourg" remain unchanged. May I ask who included this note? It's such a small detail, but I'd really like to talk about where this name came from, and why this person insists on keeping it. Surely there must be a good argument for it. I run a website about Final Fantasy VII, so I'm very interested in knowing more. ~ Sara

This Gainsbourg/Gainsborough issue is causing image issues with the images on the page breaking, as such we need to settle on name to use so that the templates will remain correct. Currently the images are using the name of Aerith Gainsbourg for the references, where as much of the page is Aerith Gainsborough. Which means that for now we have a situation where the FFVII character template says name = Aerith Gainsbourg so that the images will not break, but the aka = Aerith Gainsborough is what the "official" name seems to be. – darkstar949 1511, 18 July 2005 (CST)

I'm relatively new, but couldn't we just simply change what the images reference to? - Zero1328 08:24, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, that's doable — CuaHL 09:55, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Refer to Square Enix's FF7 character profile for "Aeris Gainsborough" [2] It makes the most sense to me to have a redirect for the "Gainsbourg" variant and make the main article adhere to the almost universally used "Gainsborough." The name used on concept art or previews is irrelevant. The final product is what most of us will see and know in the end, and this needs to be fixed immediately to reflect what the "Average Joe" playing Final Fantasy VII and reading the included book(s) would recognize. I was very confused when I arrived at a page titled "Aerith Gainsbourg" whereas if the title was the familiar "Aeris Gainsborough" I would not have even bothered reading the discussions in the first place to find out who's got the wrong idea. - Daivox

User:Daivox has a point. The name "Gainsbourgh" isn't wrong - it's a spelling we're all familiar with. Article names should relate to what a user is most familiar with and it can easily be explained her name is originally Gainsbourg. I propose an article name change. — CuaHL 16:27, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree. After all, it's not like we spell 'Cloud' in phonetic Japanese, is it? She will officially be called 'Aeris Gainsborough' until Advent Children is localised, since Kingdom Hearts is not FF7 canon either. --Made2Fade 09:50, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

This page isn't about FF7 cannon it's about the character and her apperance in multiple games. We should use the latest romaninsation. --JiFish(^Talk/_Contrib) 16:29, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes but the character's main canon appearance is FF7. Mention of her roles in FF Tactics, KH, etc are included because, as you said, this is about the character and FF7...but for story purposes and main biographical info on the character (which would include name), FF7 and FF7-related material are the main sources. For example, the character of Aeris/Aerith is currently deceased, as is relfected in Advent Children, but not in Kingdom hearts. Her having a cameo in KH does not mean the character is now "alive." That'd be like saying that after FFX Auron went to the Disney Underworld, or that Sora was intrumental in defeating Captain Barbossa. Onikage725 21:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

NEW ADDITION March 30, 2006 !Aeris is probably the proper name because Kingdom Hearts is divided between Squaresoft and Square Enix causing a major mistake in name spelling causing people to believe that Aeris's real name is "Aerith" when if you look at the original Final Fantasy VII (U.S.A. Version) her name is Aeris Gainsborough. Remember she was created originally for FFVII not Kingdom Hearts. Other thing how is she in kingdom Hearts if she died by a blow in the back/abdomen by Sephiroth?! (Addition to this message from writer about half a month later)Please listen here this little addition is to get the attention that not only Kingdom Hearts make Cloud look like Vincent but it doesnt have a lot to do with Final Fantasy because it is published by Disney Interactive!>Talk/_Contrib)18:03,30 March 2006 (UTC)

Quick question - but has anyone brough up where the Gainsborough came from as part of Aerith's name? During some surfing around the internet I found that Thomas Gainsborough(Thomas Gainsborough website) seems to be a fairly well known and respected artist - could this have been a tribue name? - Darkstar949 22:34, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Vote?

Why not vote on it? Aeris/Aerith and Gainsbourg/Gainborough. My vote would go the one that's currently canon; Aeris Gainsborough, which may or may not change with the translation of the compilation. I think if there isn't a clear vote, then this disagreement could go on indefinately.--Made2Fade 10:01, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

As others have noted before it might just be a good idea to wait until Advent Children comes out (next month) and see how the name is spelled in that version. If Square-Enix uses Aeris, that would be justification for the en localization go with Aeris, where as if they use Aerith then that would be justification for the en localization go with Aerith. - Darkstar949 0812, 19 August 2005 (CST)

Aeris Gainsborough is just the name so many of us have known her by for the past 8 or so years. But I agree, next month the name issue will be settled.Amren ^(talk) 04:59, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I was the one who originally renamed the article to Aerith Gainsbourg, as (1) It was the first name I knew her as (exposed to the first Japanese resources), and (2) It was what she was called in Kingdom Hearts. However, this option sounds the most reasonable. We should wait until Advent Children is officially localized, and it should decide whether the older FF7 or the newer KH is more authoritative in this matter. And unless the translation is really bad (and Legend of the Crystals had a pretty crappy translation, I remember), I won't dispute the outcome. - Gilgamesh 06:45, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I agree with waiting and seeing what happens with Advent Children. Being a direct sequel, it should be considered more authoritative than KH, merchandise, etc. I still believe there is a principle that in art, we conventionally assume that everything is as the creator meant it (barring extraordinary circumstances, like outside interference), a principle that is too often ignored by fandom. The sequel gives Square a great opportunity to make up their minds. -Invalidname 22 Aug 2005.

I have to disagree to some extent. Aeris is one of the primary characters in Final Fantasy VII, and apparently did not exist in any kind of Square production before that (not that I am aware of anyway). Aeris Gainsborough is the localized name used in all of the *production* literature I have seen for this character. KH and AC are more like afterthoughts, when one thinks about it, and I am fairly certain that a huge percentage of those seeking information on this character will be searching for such information as it relates to Final Fantasy VII. I propose that the alternative spellings and their explanations be redirected and outlined in a dedicated section of the page, but the article *REALLY* should be named the official english localized name Aeris Gainsborough. If the name is changed in Advent Children, we can make a note of that, but considering Aeris is not even prominent enough in AC for Square Enix to put her on the character list on their Japanese AC page, I don't think it would be appropriate to follow the argument that newer means more correct. Daivox

Negative, the standard name used in Japan is Aerith, which is where in lies the localization issues. One example of this usage is that all official merchandise coming out of Japan is Aerith as opposed to Aeris. Also, the reason that Aerith is not listed on the AC site is partly the same reason that we have yet to have been shown her full face - S-E is trying to build her character up and maintain a sense of mystery around her. Darkstar949 16:03, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I am reading in various places that Aeris was one of those errors in transliteration when moving from Japanese to English. Aerith apparently is indeed the "correct" way to spell/say the name, but Aeris is the most familiar version for FF7 (eng) players by a large margin, primarily for the familiarity (the books say Aeris, the games say Aeris, it must be Aeris) and the fact that moving from Aeris to Aerith sounds rather lispy. If this is indeed correct, I am comfortable with the first name being Aerith, provided an explanation is given in the text regarding the Aeris name. Gainsbourg's got to go, though. It sounds like a type of cheese. :) Daivox

Lispy quality is irrelevant. Cheese-sounding is irrelevant. If you speak with an air of cultural ridicule, you weaken your argument. It is also potentially offensive to those with true laminal or dental lisps to cite lispy quality as a detracting factor. Wikipedia is not a play test center, and it is not market research for what "sounds good." It is a dry academic database. - Gilgamesh 12:35, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Dry database or not, this part of it's targeted towards English-speaking audiences, and as such, the intense familiarity amongst a majority of individuals in primarily English-speaking countries with the full name "Aeris Gainsborough" due to its repeated appearance in their localized version of the game in which this character originated, as well as numerous official and un-official strategy guides released both in print and in digital form, dictates that these individuals in search of this specific character will be searching for the familiar name. This is in itself more than adequate reason to use this name as the article title. Even if this is a "dry academic database," pure scientific research will not be able to resolve anything which is a matter of opinion; in this case, the assertion that any given incantation of this character's name is "more correct" than the other, either because "it was on the original concept" or "it was what was chosen for the finished product" or "a later product contained a 'correction' of this." My opinion and my reasoning stands. Also, to address your attack on the use of "lispy" in my opening sentences, I shall quote it in entirety and bold for your narrowly-focused eyes to examine one more time: "I am reading in various places that Aeris was one of those errors in transliteration when moving from Japanese to English. Aerith apparently is indeed the "correct" way to spell/say the name, but Aeris is the most familiar version for FF7 (eng) players by a large margin, primarily for the familiarity (the books say Aeris, the games say Aeris, it must be Aeris) and the fact that moving from Aeris to Aerith sounds rather lispy." Please notice that the beginning is "I am reading in various places" which means that the following sentence comtains information that is derived from what I have "read in various places" and is not necessarily reflecting my reasoning. You, sir, have offered up a red herring by proverbially "shouting racist." Regardless of your personally percieved intelligence level and vocabulary skills, you have not provided any helpful dialog regarding what I have actually said, only attacked me on a personal level for not being "politically correct." Your attack on the cheese remark is clearly missing the point. The textual smiley-face :) indicates a lack of seriousness and as such the prior remark is to be taken in a less dry academic manner and a more human one. This is not the article. This is the Discussion page, and as such, there will be comments where one must actually interpret what is being said as if a living being is generating it, not a robot. If you wish to bring factual arguments back to the table, do so. If you wish to offer non-logical attacks and red herrings, you have even stated in your own way that this is not the location to take part in these non-contributional ramblings. Daivox

Also consider, it's not really that much different from the nameing of the series itself. FFVI was originally FFIII. There are people to this day still don't know the full extent of the name changes...but noone here I could imagine would think to say the game is 'supposed' to be III. Melodia Chaconne 12:22, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

The big difference there is that an entire series of games was produced in Japan, but only select parts of that series were translated for english distribution. Rather than make English-speaking gamers question "where is FF IV and why can I not get it in the english language," the selections were numbered consecutively and the fact that more games existed was conveniently hidden. The interesting part is that FF7us = FF7j instead of being, say, FF4us. Nevertheless, the renaming of a series of productions is far different from the simple two-letter change in a translated name, and as such, I feel that this point is not quite hitting the mark. Daivox

Gilgamesh, it seems like you're the only one campaigning for keeping the current article title and you're doing it just for your own satisfaction. The last name in particular is not something I, myself have heard in any localization but I have never played Kingdom Hearts. Also, this is the ENGLISH wikipedia....the japanese version can have it spelled however they want but since this is the ENGLISH wikipedia the name should be changed to the one English speakers are more apt to recognize.

Assuming, of course, you ignore the comment immediately above his, and the various other undecided comments scattered throughout this page. While there was (IIRC) an agreement that "Gainsbourough" was probably the more reasonable surname, the "Aeris"/"Aerith" debate is still unresolved. I still think we should wait and see if the imminent English language release of Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children throws a monkey wrench into our discussion (not that it will decide it: even if she is called "Aerith" in the film, we can still decide to change to the "Aeris" moniker, but we should still see what kind of impact AC has). After that, we can revisit the argument. Until then, there are redirects in place to mitigate confusion. Also, it would help if you could sign your comments. Thanks. – Seancdaug 21:44, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

This page has not seen additional comments or 'votes' for a week now. If there is no objection, the task for converting the name used to "Aeris Gainsborough" shall be undertaken relatively soon. For the reasons shown above in prior edits, this is the most sensible course of action. Please submit any further comments ASAP. Daivox 18:47, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

All else being equal, I do tend to agree that a name change would appropriate. However, I still maintain that we should wait until the English language release of Advent Children before committing to it. Furthermore, I'm not convinced that we've reached consensus yet, and would strongly urge that we hold a real vote before anyone takes it into their own hands to unilaterally move the page. – Seancdaug 20:33, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

The thing I don't understand is that if the two sounds are interchangeable, wouldn't it just be a matter of interpretation, rather than which is more correct? I mean, plenty of Record of Lodoss War fans were used to translating it is Rodoss or Rodosu, and neither is inherently "wrong." Yet the articles are named for the official English release, because that's what english-speaking fans are most likely to be searching for (old-school fansubbing community aside). Another example is Fist of the North Star. Hokuto no Ken translates literally as Fist of the Big Dipper, so in a localization effort was changed (otherwise the meaning would have been lost in translation if left at it's most literal state). Nobody argues that the page titles should be Fist of the Big Dipper or Hokuto no Ken, but rather that those names be given mention in the article and that the familiar English name be used for English wiki. And thus far, Aeris has appeared in officially translated English materials in FF7, FFT, KH, and KH2...and the last 3 were guest spots. Of those 3 guest spots, two are from a series that has a lot of people's hands in the cookie jar aside from the original team. Seeing as how nobodies lobbying for a change to of Cid to Shid or Cait Sith to Cait Shi, I'd say that for English info on the character, Aeris is by far more familiar, and a solid case for Aerith can't be made until the US releases of AC and Dirge. Onikage725 15:11, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

If it were only a matter of romanizing Japanese syllables, this debate (hopefully) wouldn't have gone on as long as it has. Yes, there's some flexibility in romanization, and when the localization team agrees on a romanization, we typically go along with it. However, there are two issues that make the situation here unusual: first, the romanization "Aeris" was invented by Sony, and not Square, thus rendering it less official. Second, "Aerith" is the original name, not エアリス, as explained in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book. Her name was based on the English word "Earth", not the Japanese loanword for Earth, which is "アース" (Both of these points were made earlier, in the Aerith or Aeris section. I imagine the situation is the same with Cid and Cait Sith, though I haven't actually seen proof of it. -- Rablari Dash 09:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Aeris wasn't invented by sony, it's a real Latin word that was in Carmina Burana (as was Materia) and it meant air and Aether, which is the mythical substance that created the universe? Sound a bit like lifestream? yeah... Earth doesn't katakana as earisu, but as Aasu, as was used previously in the series. The strategy guide can't be taken as difinitive on every issue... The guide itself was wrong... Why create a new pronunciation of an english word that's allready been used? Ayarth isn't a more "correct" way of saying earth... No english speaking countries say it like that, wheras aasu would be closer to the way at least some english speakers pronounce the word. Earisu corresponds to the latin word, and in all likelyhood the word was pulled out of carmina burana, just as the One Winged Angel lyrics were, and likely the word Materia was as well... If it was just earth, then Aerith would STILL be wrong... Her name should be earth... Aerith was made up by that strategy guide... That word didn't exist before then... WhateverTS 23:52, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

Naming...

I am happy to see that a consensus has been reached on moving the page to Gainsborough; I have never ever seen reference to "Gainsbourg" before this, and it just screams typo to me. I apologize that I did start to move things before looking at the talk page here, but at least since the move was going to be made, I haven't done anything that needs to be reverted. Sorry to go off unilaterally like that. LordAmeth 02:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

We never really had a true vote. I think many people have lost interest in this detail at this point. As an individual who has played the English localization of Final Fantasy VII as distributed in the United States by Squaresoft (now Square Enix), I would never have found this article without proper redirection in place. Ever. I am being rather forceful in my demands that the last name be changed to "Gainsborough" because of two things: 1. All official English literature put out by Square appears to use the full name "Aeris Gainsborough" throughout; this includes (but may not be limited to) the character profile in the manual included with the CD, the online version of said profile, the official FF7 strategy guide, the actual game itself in which this character originates, etc. 2. The appearance of any last name other than "Gainsborough" appears to be so scarce that the casual Final Fantasy fan will most likely never know of it. For the sake of completeness, a note of this spelling should be made, but it should not dominate the entire article. For these reasons, as well as to better this corner of Wikipedia in general, I am attempting to force a finalization of this change. Also, the debate has raged on plenty long enough, and decisions cannot be put off forever as we argue over it. Daivox 03:55, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

Which is all well and good, and I don't think we had any real argument against changing it to "Gainsborough" (and, indeed, it could probably have been done much earlier). But there is more than enough of a debate on the surname that it would be entirely inappropriate to "force a finalization" without a vote. – Seancdaug 04:29, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I was only intending to be "pushy" about the last name, not the first. Honestly, I could care less whether the first name used is "Aeris" or "Aerith" because I've seen both used, apparently based solely on personal exposure and preference. My only argument in favor of "Aeris" is that it is all that Square has "officially" put out for this character in the game of origination. Waiting to see what FF7:AC says the name should be is probably a very good idea. If I continue, I will begin talking in circles, so I shall leave my end of it there. Until specified otherwise, I simply vote for "Aeris" and shall fade back to silence for now. Daivox 06:56, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

I thought you guys might appreciate this information (I was just dropping it off in the Jenova discussion section of all places, as well as another article on this discussion page):

"Aeris' name is just a Japanese transliteration of the English word 'Earth.' If you'll notice, in katakana (the Japanese alphabet used for words that are not of Japanese origin), the name is written as 'Earisu.' It's the tendency of vowels to follow consonants in Japanese ('n' being the only exception; thus, the 'i' after 'r') and the Japanese language has no 'th' characters, instead using 'su.' It became 'Aeris' as a result of writing it in romaji (the alphabet in which English characters represent Japanese sounds) to represent how it sounds when spoken in Japanese ('Air-reese').

'Aerith,' by the way, the other popular -- and actually official -- romanization of the name, should technically never occur. As it's written, it's essentially a combination of the romaji form of the Japanese transliteration and the original English word that was transliterated. It's technically impossible because there is no 'th' sound in Japanese to be represented by romaji characters. Nonetheless, it's the official romanization chosen by the creators of Final Fantasy VII."

The matter of "Earth" being the word of origin is stated in the Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho book on Aerith's profile page. Here's a scan for proof:

http://img30.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith6ot.jpg

http://img222.imageshack.us/my.php?image=aerith25wz.jpg

The text there is as follows: "ネーミングの来由 Earth（大地）の読みかたを変えて命名"

--Squall of SeeD January 2006

Ok, sorry to repeat myself, but I'm answering this wherever it shows up on the discussion... Aeris is not a Japanese transliteration of Earth. That book, though it may have been "official" was wrong. Aeris is an actual word, a latin word. Aerith is not. Earth doesn't become earisu, it becomes Aasu. If it were an alternate katakana rendering of the word as someone said, it would not be eaRIsu at all, but earusu. Ri always indicates the sounds "Ree" or "Lee" never just "r." And if her name were a result of a transliteration of Earth, then Earth would be her proper name, not Aerith. WhateverTS 16:09, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

and the naming by the official guide wasn't about the spelling of the word, but just an assumption as to the origin which would be believeable if it weren't for the fact Aeris (much like cloud or strife or sephiroth) is a real word that existed before Final Fantasy 7... WhateverTS 16:21, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Just look to google for the awnser. Search Aerith and you get 571,000 results. Search Aeris and you get 2,070,000. It should be obvious which name is more accepted, no?

Incidentally....

In reference to the mention that the name Aerith "could also be based off of the Hebrew name Erith, which means "flower"": I would like to point out that there is no 'th' sound in Hebrew. I offer this not as part of the naming debate, simply as a curiosity; a point of interest, if you will. LordAmeth 02:36, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Out of interest.. how would you say Erith in Hebrew then? — CuaHL 05:10, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't know much about Hebrew vocabulary, so I had to go look it up. According to Wiktionary and a couple of other online dictionaries, the Hebrew word for 'flower' is perakh. So, whatever word Erith is supposed to refer to, my guess is that it's either Eris or Erit, depending on what letter it ends with. (I've asked some friends, waiting to hear an answer. I'll post here when I learn more.) LordAmeth 11:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

For all those interested, I have heard back from my friends in Judaic Studies. There is a flower called asphodel which, in modern Hebrew transliteration would be spelled "irit". In older forms of pronunciation, it is quite conceivable that this word would be pronounced "erith," much as many synagogues use "Beth" for "Bet" or "Beit". Erith/irit is spelled ayin-yod-resh-yod-tav. LordAmeth 15:34, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I don't pretend to know any Hebrew, however from what I've researched, "tav" has both a "T" or "S" sound, interchangeably. So, as it seems to me, both "Aeris" and "Aerith" are still correct. I would then think it's a completely individual preference. Ereinion File:Hiveneo.gif 22:51, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

You're absolutely right; the letter tav can have a 't' sound, or an 's' sound. But in normal Hebrew pronunciation, it never has a 'th' sound. Only in more colloquial speech, particularly in Yiddish, does it have that sound. LordAmeth 00:16, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

If this is the case, however, 1. Her name should be Erith, not Aerith. 2. If we follow traditional hebrew pronunciation, Sephiroth would also be an erroneous pronunciation, except it is an accepted spelling among many english speaking Kabbalists. I still say it came from the Latin word Aeris. The "Earth" explanation was entirely rediculous, in my opinion.WhateverTS 00:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Advent Children Usage

In the credits for Advent Children, her name is listed as Aerith Gainsborough, there for this is the current, and official cannon word on all Japanese localizations. This means that the big event will be this November when the North American release comes out - however, as a prior prediction (and based on the way the credits are organized) - if the is not an English dub then we can be sure that the credits will not be changed and Aerith Gainsborough will stay the same, otherwise it is up in the air as to if it will be changed or not. - Darkstar949 13:51, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Just pointing out to everyone that the IMDB changed it's listing with the annoncing of the US cast, and her US name is going to be Aeris. Onikage725 01:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

"Gainsbourg"

In the original American PSX release of FF7, her name was Aeris Gainsborough. Whomever has a scan of the original American instruction manual can upload that as a source if need be. (I, unfortunately, have lost mine.) While the article may have originally been called "Aerith Gainsbourg", at NO POINT IN HISTORY was the character in question ever called that. (Except for possibly in fan translations, but those have little, if any, authority.) Unless someone has a good reason otherwise, I'm removing the phrase "originally Aerith Gainsbourg." Viltris 06:05, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with it being removed from the page -- and in all honesty, its presence never sat well with me to begin with due to there not being a source for it -- but I must protest having the article read as "formerly 'Aeris Gainsborough.'" It was not originaly "Aeris Gainsborough." This game is from Japan, not the United States. The "original" American manual does not have the original spelling. Japan -- and Aerith's creators -- have always used "Aerith" as the official romanization of her name, and that's also the romanization now used in official materials in the United States. Thus, it should read as "also known as 'Aeris Gainsborough'" instead. I'm going to fix this. Ryu Kaze 17:46, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Show me the evidence that "Japan -- and Aerith's creators -- have always used "Aerith" as the official romanization of her name". All I have ever seen are fan translations. Viltris 08:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

The evidence is looking at any materials that have come out of Japan, whether they be the Final Fantasy 7 Dismantling book or the Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega Guide, one of which is an officially licensed book, and the other of which was actually published by Square-Enix themselves. For that matter, look at the credits of Advent Children. This is well-known info, and has been since 1997. Ryu Kaze 20:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Have you lost your mind?!

If it was "Aerith" why would "Aeris" be in the freakin' instruction manual of Final Fantasy VII (FF7)? I hate to break it to all the lisping children, teenagers, young adults, adults, and even senior citizens who can't say a plural noun with out lisping or a word ending in -s, but it is definately not "Aerith" but unmistakably AERIS! It is in the game, it is in the instruction manual, it is on www.ffonline.com/ff7/, it is almost everywhere CORRECT. THE MAN WHO KNOWS HIS ABC'S —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.20.39.46 (talk • contribs) .

First, calm down; then, read through the above discussions, and consider if you have anything other to add, really. Welcome to the world of confusing translated character names. Enjoy your stay. =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:02, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Okay well I get your point but I do not have a clue why they would actually think it was "Aerith". Do you really think I play Kingdom Hearts, and do you really think I would look at the fake facts? I dont think anyone has noticed but the only reason people think it is "Aerith" is because they heard it from some doped up guy that has been sucking on the wrong of his joint. THE MAN WHO KNOWS HIS ABC'S —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.20.39.46 (talk • contribs) .

(Please sign your posts with "~~~~", not nicknames) Yeah, and how weird do you think it looks to someone who only played Japanese version and every game subsequent bit in English? =) And if we really want to go with your logic, we might as well delete most of the games in the database, I mean I didn't play them, how they can be verifiable at all? Look, sometimes you just have to make a judgement based on available data (ie, we see how the character name was translated in all of the products), rather than to make an educated guess with a limited data. (ie, just one translation of a game). =) And Aerith isn't even alone in this group (think of Marth, who was first translated as Mars in the English anime translation, then when SSBM was released to the world, the character was forevermore Marth...) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:07, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous editor: "Aerith" has been the official romanization of the character's name in all Squaresoft/Square-Enix official materials since 1997. FFVII -- and its instruction manual -- were translated by third-parties at Sony. Ryu Kaze 13:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

"officially" changed to Aerith?

"While her name was translated in the US version of Final Fantasy VII as "Aeris", her name was officially changed to "Aerith" after her cameo in Kingdom Hearts"

If there is to be any implication of Square-Enix officially changing her name to Aerith, I believe it should have a citation for proof, otherwise not mentioned at all.

I'm not taking a stand on the Aeris/Aerith issue, merely pointing this out, because if it's to be used as the basis for arguing any point, it can't be mere speculation. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.183.52.75 (talk • contribs) .

Well, judging from IMDB info, that's how the name appears in Advent Children, I think it's so far safe to say it's true. And assuming KH used Aerith consistently, then that's even better bet. And I'm sure as heck hoping they stick to one version anyway =) --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 19:14, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually the IMDB now says that for the english version of AC it's "Aeris." Just thought I'd point that out.

IMDB also said Eminem was going to star in the movie. Don't trust them too much. =) What does the official movie website say? I can't see text due to some weirdness with Flash player... =/ --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:48, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Eminem?? Ya know...he'd make a funny Loz Onikage725 20:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

People actually in attendance at the screening of the English version of Advent Children in Hollywood last week reported that her name was still "Aerith" in the credits. IMDB is full of crap. Ryu Kaze 13:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Something strange about the name

Isn't it odd that the opening of this page states "it is Wikipolicy to use the official name" when, actually, it isn't? Wikipolicy is to use the most common name. Thus, this article should actually have been called 'Aeris Gainsborough' all along, simply because this is the most commonly known name. The truth can, of course, be explained in the article. (Note: I'm not arguing which form is right, simply which Wikipolicy states should be used). --86.144.234.245 21:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

(Apologies in advance - this analogy regrettably invokes Politics. I don't care about Politics and thus this isn't intended as a political statement. This is just a rhetorical example.) You notice we have an article titled "George W. Bush" which is the official name; if we'd go by "use the really common name" logic, we'd have to move the article to "Dubya" or maybe even "Bush (43rd President of the United States)", both of which are probably way more common names in the everyday discourse. Or perhaps we'd have to listen to what the trolls and vandals have been saying and rename the article to "The Chimpanzee," since that's the "common" name. Also, just last night I looked at the article CSS Virginia; I'm in a distant country where the school history textbook, when discussing the famous sea battle, called the ship "Merrimac". As the article states, that was a wrong name despite that being rather common. Believe me, using correct names for things is a solidly employed policy here. Why it isn't listed in the policies? Well, it is - in form of "use common sense". It isn't listed under "things that should be obvious", AFAIK there's no such list. =)

I do admit as much that the policy documents (Wikipedia:Naming conventions) doesn't really have any real guideline that applies to this specific situation. It has "use what names people really use", but this policy concerns format, not spellings; ie, use the name format the person/fictional author uses, don't go for really nitpickingly technically correct name. "Aerith Gainsborough" satisfies this requirement and "Cetra Aerith Gainsborough, daughter of Ifalna and Gast" would be an example of what we shouldn't use; no gamer would use that form, nor would the characters themselves, nor is such form used anywhere else, and hey, it's a quasi-spoiler too...

So in closing, the name does satisfy whatever policies we have about the title format. Alternate spellings of the name are also handled the way the policies ask (in form of redirects). If Square has stuck with this name forevermore, that's what we're using - it's common sense. After all, they have full reason and right to decide the spelling; it's gotten so fudged lately that it's not entirely unreasonable for them to settle on a spelling and we should thus follow them. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 10:19, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Regarding "th" statement

"Aerith," the actual official romanization of the name, would rarely occur in the romaji system due to the lack of a "th" sound in Japanese, though "th" is a valid, if not somewhant antiquated rendering of "su" (ス).

I've never heard of this, and quite frankly, I doubt that it's true. The Hepbrun system, which is the first "modern" one, has always had it as "su", and the Japanese developed (Nihon-shiki, Kunrei-shiki) systemss certainly wouldn't have it. Was the polite copula was romanised as "deth" in the past? Hou about "suteki", was it "thteki"? I doubt it. The only way I can think of it being true is from very early romanisation based on Portugese (first to come to Japan and so on), what with "s" being pronounced as "th" in some words, and these wouldn't have been "standard" by any means. Any explanation? --88.105.241.73 01:21, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... I guess the statement is a little confusing, if you don't already know what it's talking about. "ス" is never romanized as "th", but the "th" in loanwords (and names) is generally written using "サ","シ","ス","セ", or "ソ" in katakana. For example, "Thank you" is written "サンキュー" in katakana. Also, the Japanese pronounce the word like they write it, because it's as close as they can typically get to the original pronunciation of the loanword. So, to keep going with my example, they would pronounce "Thank you" as "Sankyuu". They don't have a "th" sound, so it's hard for them to pronounce. Therefore, they replace it with the closest sound that they can pronounce, which, in this case, is "ス". I guess the biggest confusing factor here is calling "Aerith" a romanization, which it isn't. It's her original name, and "エアリス" is the Japanese transcription of "Aerith". Hmm... Now that I've thought this out, that weird-sounding sentence seems more than out of place -- It's misleading and confusing, if not flat-out wrong. -- Rablari Dash 02:30, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I know that the "s" line is how "th" is approximated in Katakana English, it's just that the sentence claimed that it was an "antiquated romanisation", when it is neither antiquated or a romanisation. Heh.--88.105.243.4 15:21, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Final Fantasy Tactics

Hope you don't mind, but thought I'd pursue this topic separately, as it's a slightly different issue.

We're referring to the same character in that section, thus, we use the same name for consistency, and in an attempt to avoid confusing the reader of the article. So unless you want to make the argument that the "Aeris" in Final Fantasy tactics is supposed to be an different character named "Aeris", rather than the same character... It just isn't going to happen. -- Rablari Dash 07:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

First off, she ISN'T the same character. This is factually indisputable. Tactics was an alternate timeline. It's debateable whether or not that's even the same 'cloud', but that is certainly not the same Aeris.
It is another Aeris that happens to be a flower-girl. The whole point of the caption in the article there is that she resembles/mirrors the 'aerith' of FF7, but ISN'T her.
"taken aback by her resemblance to the Aerith he knew. Aeris asks Cloud if she reminds him of someone, but he denies this and walks away." She isn't the same character; in the sense of being literally the same person. It's an absolute certainty that it's a different Aeris. (obviously an identical character, but they aren't one and the same)
As such, Final Fantasy Tactics is the only reference available for that character. Nothing else that's being cited applies to her. Since there is only a single source of reference for that character's name in tactics, that is the name that will stay.
Don't change it unless you can cite an example of her being called 'Aerith' in Final Fantasy Tactics.

I'm not going to call people on calling her Aerith elsewhere, even though what they choose to call her now has zero relevance on what her name was in the game. (They could start calling her "Harold" in all future works; that wouldn't change the fact that her name was "Aeris" for FF7.) But frankly, I don't care. Valid or not, the name 'Aerith' is pretty common among people who actually still care, so that lends it a bit of credibility. However, there is only one source for the name of the character found in Final Fantasy Tactics. Calling her anything else is a fabrication or a whim. Give a citation for that character in that game, or drop it. Bladestorm

I haven't played much of Tactics, and have never seen the scene in question, so I was not certain whether or not it referred to the exact same character. However, I'd say that it is also indisputable that the name of this character in the Japanese version of FFT is the same as the character in the Japanese version of FFVII. They characters themselves look the same, and are obviously supposed to essentially be the same character, though they're from alternate universes, and have different pasts, memories, etc. Much like "Aerith" and "Cloud" in Kingdom Hearts. They're still the same character, they're just placed in a different setting and story. This isn't that unheard of in Japan, unlike over in the western world.

I think it should be obvious what the intentions of the writers were in this instance, and it should also be obvious what happened. Final Fantasy Tactics was translated and released by Sony in America only 5 months after the American release of Final Fantasy VII, which was also translated and released by Sony. It's not a matter of Square-Enix changing her name, which was, and always has been, "Aerith". Any proof that her name was originally "Aerith" and was miswritten by Sony as "Aeris" applies equally well to the incarnation of the character in FFT. Why would this character be named "Aeris"? I really doubt that the original Japanese writers intended for her to have a slightly different name than the character she resembles. For the Japanese audience, the two characters had identical names. Thus, they should also have identical names in the English versions. Her name has been written in roman characters in Japanese publications as "Aerith", and I imagine that any Japanese publications that mention her appearance in FFT spell it "Aerith". If someone has a copy of the Japanese FFT strategy guide and could scan the relevant page for us, that would probably settle the debate.

I'm still rather boggled how anyone can insist that Sony's translation is somehow more official than all the media printed by Square-Enix. Americans were first introduced to the character as "Aeris", but first impressions aren't always right. And correcting a mistake made by a third party isn't the same as changing your mind.

Anyway, I've left your edits for the time being. I don't want to start another revert war over this. Ok, time to take a step back, and breathe. And then attack the metadebate, which means laying our cards out on the table, trying to understand each others' positions, and resolve concerns, rather than staking out positions and attacking each other. Sheesh, that's what I usually do in an argument: address the reasons the person is making the argument, instead of butting heads from the limited viewpoint of being in the argument. Well, now I know what it is to be embroiled in one.

Ok, here's my honest position. I'm not a big fan of Final Fantasy VII, or even the Final Fantasy series in general. I've usually preferred Square's other titles, and have always been irritated by how much some people obsess over the Final Fantasy series, how "RPG" and "Final Fantasy" are synonymous to so many people. Or how some of the fans insist that every installment of the series is automatically better than every other game in the world. I didn't play and obsess over FFVII when it came out. I don't have this emotional attachment to the characters. I think that a lot of the people who argue that Aerith's name is spelled "Aeris" are either eurocentric and believe that only the English version matters, or they're just so attached to their personal experience of the game, attached to the character, and emotionally attached to the spelling "Aeris". I don't find either of these to be strong positions. Which is why people don't argue from them. They make up other reasoning, but hide their true reasons, because they realise that their selfish, personal reasons wouldn't stand up to scrutiny. Or maybe they don't even realise that's why they hold the position they do. Neither of those are typically conscious things.

That's how I see the situation. Maybe I'm wrong. If I am, I'd like someone to correct me on it. Now, here's why I care that her name is spelled "Aerith" and not "Aeris": respect for the creators of the character. Were someone to translate my works into another language, and change the names of my characters, I would be offended if someone insisted that the names I have chosen for my own characters are somehow "wrong" or "less official" than the names created by the foreign publishing company. So for me, it's a simple application of The Golden Rule. I would want people to respect my decisions about my characters, and therefore I feel that I should respect other people's decisions about their characters.

Also, ethnocentricity really bothers me, so I try to fight it wherever I see it. People believing that somehow their culture is absolutely superior to all other cultures tends to prevent them from learning from other cultures, and also prevents them from seeing anything rotten within their own culture. It frustrates human evolution, which already frustrates me with its lethargic pace.

So that's it. In summary, I don't personally care about the name of this character. I care about how the works of any artist are treated, and I care about correcting obnoxious attitudes towards other cultures. Most of the arguments about Aerith's name, or a number of other similar arguments about translations of Japanese media, pretty much sound to me like "Just gimme the game and shut up, you stupid jap!". I know that's an exageration, but there's just so much disrespect for the creators of things people love. -- Rablari Dash 20:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

It stems from familiarity, in some cases. So you shouldn't take it so hard. Sometimes it is as you said, and I've seen that too. Personally, I call her "Aeris" because it's what I'm familiar with. The 100 hours I've sunk into FF7 hasn't been succesfully overwritten in my heart and mind by two KH cameos and one FF7-inspired movie. However, I do support Aerith. I mean, go to the DBZ article for Freeza and write "Frieza" (and then state that "this is English wiki" as your reason) and see how long that edit holds up. Wikipedia should uphold the original intentions and most accurate information. Translated or dubbed names must be noted, but the main name should be the one given by the creators, not a localization team. Onikage725

I'm not sure if you're talking about in general, or specifically for FFT. (the comment was under the FFT section) So, I'll address it either way. :) If you mean for FFT, then there isn't actually any material for what to call her in FFT other than the game itself. Conclusions made about her FF7 name might logically be tempting to apply to FFT, but that's really stretching the reasoning. There's only one source of material for the unique character found solely in FFT, and that said Aeris, so that's the name of the flower girl in FFT, even if it's a bit inconsistent or unwieldly for the article.

However, I'm guessing that you were talking about in general. First off, I should like to point out that mentioning DBZ is actually a good idea... but it speaks against your case. There were different, rather inconsistent, names for the characters in it. In one case, where the androids are scanning the protagonists, you actually see Piccolo identified as 'Piccoro', spelled out clear as day. However, his name is still listed as Piccolo, because that's what his name is known as in English. Furthermore, while although I am loathed to cite wikipedia when discussing what should be done in wikipedia (the practice should generally be avoided, as it tends to propagate errors), there's an alternate reason provided for listing Frieza as "Freeza". The translations of the manga, which are considered to be a more reliable canon than the anime, list him as Freeza. That is to say, since the show is less canon than the manga, it cannot override something established in it. In this case, that means he gets listed as "Freeza", as weird as that spelling looks to me.

Now, the core 'canon' in this case really should be considered to be FF7 itself. There is only one english version of the original game. It's been re-released, including a computer port. The spelling is always Aeris. Thus, as far as 'canon' is concerned, her 'real' english name is 'Aeris'. Kingdom Hearts is immaterial and unreferencable, as it isn't Canon. It doesn't even qualify as a what-if. Even Advent Children, and other media centred around the original timeline/story, don't count. Because they don't change what her name WAS. If Aeris were a real person, then yes, she could be renamed. The best that you could say is that her name was Aeris in FF7, and Aerith in Advent Children. But nothing will change what her name was in FF7. If they follow through with a re-release on the PSP, or a remake on the PS3, and change her name to Aerith, then there might be room for discussion. However, until that time, there is absolutely no question that, in Final Fantasy VII, the Playstation Game, her english name was Aeris.

That said, I still don't really care how she's listed in general in the article. The second criteria for deciding how to list characters' names is how they are "best known". And this is why I prefer listing Teknoman as "Tekkaman Blade" in the appropriate article. His english name was Teknoman, but to anyone who still remembers/cares about the series, he is best known as Tekkaman Blade. Similarly, though I can't cite evidence to the effect, I suspect that most people who still care about FF7 tend to call her Aerith. Certainly, nearly every single forum, fansite, web reference, etc, I've ever seen have listed her as Aerith. And that is why I can accept her being listed as Aerith in general. Because there's precedent set for listing characters as they're most commonly known. Bladestorm 15:21, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd just like to point out that more copies of titles translated into English that used "Aerith" have been sold than the two games that incorrectly used "Aeris" — and all have been sold in the last four years, which is certainly more recent than 1997. "Aerith" has had more English exposure than "Aeris", so is the more recognizable, especially with all English video game publications using that spelling. Ryu Kaze 14:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Really, the spellings "Aeris" and "Lockheart" are only used at all in media pertaining to the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII.—ウルタプ 14:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

You meant "not used at all", didn't you? Ryu Kaze 14:50, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

er, no. I meant what I said. Those spellings are only used in CoFF7 media.—ウルタプ 04:14, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, that's why I'm confused. "Aeris" isn't used at all in any of the Compilation material. Like at all. Ever. Not even in any of the English stuff. For that matter, I don't think "Lockheart" is either. These romanizations were only used in materials put out by third parties years ago. Ryu Kaze 12:56, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I can somewhat see Bladestorm's point, after reading that above response. Basically the question is original name vs. US name. For US name the criteria seems to be subjective. We have Aeris as the official name in the game she was from and the highest source of canon on her, Aerith in the spin-off movie. I don't think FF Tactics OR Kingdom Hearts should be cited for either case, as both are AU's of the character and not canon. Tho in the case of judging FFT on it's own, the debate is the same. If we go by official US name, then she was named Aeris. I don't have access to a Japanese copy of the game, but I'd bet money that the characters used in her name are exactly the same as those used in FF7 and that she's meant to have the same name (in which case if consensus is to use original names, a case could be made for Aerith there too.

Oh, and on the DBZ names, the consensus on those articles hasn't been strictly manga. Example- we Use Majin Buu, not Djinn Boo. We use Pui Pui, not Pocus. We use Vegetto, not Vegerot. The general consensus has been to go with official romanizations of the original names. To address Piccoro, that's the lack of "l" that we should all be familiar with. However his name is officially Piccolo (he and all his henchmen in his first saga are named after musical instruments.) That's why Furiza comes out Freeza (I don't feel like going into the phonetics, but I basically just wrote the same thing twice, also pun on Freezer, and "ie" doesn't make a long "e" in either language and is essentially a dub typo). We use Coola (Kura, pun on word Cooler) instead of Cooler. You get the idea. In all cases the dub name (and viz manga name if applicable) are mentioned as well, but we generally use originals. There are some exceptions, like Hercule being so wide spread amongst English fans and being used in both the US manga and anime that it's used out of familiarity.

To bring this back home, if the naming here became familiarity , I don't think Kingdom Hearts should supercede FF7. Two mini-cameos in a what-if game series, So then it would basically be FF7 vs Advent Children. I don't even think they say her name in AC, but it is Aerith in the credits.Onikage725

It doesn't make sense to look to what is or isn't FFVII canon to decide this. That's taking an in-universe perspective to analyze an inherently out-of-universe matter. While the character isn't the same person in terms of story, it's the same character in terms of design and name. We couldn't even call it a cameo if it wasn't the same character on some level.

Going by familiarity, we've got four titles that have been released in English markets with the use of "Aerith", all in the last few years, as opposed to two titles released 9 years ago that incorrectly used "Aeris". Furthermore, those four titles using "Aerith" have sold more English copies combined than the other two titles, meaning "Aerith" has had more exposure and is more recent. There's also more titles coming that will be using "Aerith". Added to that the fact that video game publications, strategy guides for the games involved, etc. use "Aerith" and it's undeniable which of the two is most familiar. Ryu Kaze 13:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Why not use Aeris when describing FF7/FFT, and Aerith when referring to other games, with an expanation of the discrepancy? - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 03:58, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

That might be the best method, so long as the page name remains "Aerith Gainsborough". Ryu Kaze 13:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I was thinking That one chick who dies in Final Fantasy VII, but your idea is good too. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:36, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

If you wanted to really stop the argument you could simply put her name as Aerith/Aeris Gainsborough. Or simply add a line after Aerith Gainsborough that stated "Aeris and Aerith can be used interchangeably". I am an enormous supporter of using the character names given in games to describe the character -in that game-. Frankly anyone who wishes otherwise has some sort of alternate purpose behind doing so. If someone bought Final Fantasy 7 today and came to this article they would (correctly) tell someone it was wrong. The quotes have been altered to use the word Aerith (which they obviously didin't have), and the plot summary for a game with a character called Aeris describes the actions of a nonexistent character named Aerith. The fact is people that this is an encyclopedia, and you have to treat it as one. Your feelings about ethnocentricity, or creative control, or japanese culture don't enter in to it. This is an Encyclopedia. And if however you feel about any subject causes you to distribute incorrect information then you are doing wikipedia a disservice. The Character should be refer to by the title she was given game by game. In Final Fantasy and Tactics she was called Aeris, so we will call her Aeris. In any other game she was called Aerith, so we will call her Aerith. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.117.246.184 (talk) 08:54, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Final Fantasy Tactics 2

Yes, the Final Fantasy Tactics section needs to be seriously re-written, because the flower girl in question was not Aeris, but merely a flower girl who looks like Aeris. There is no place in the game where the flower girl is named Aeris, her name is simply Flower Girl. There is no debate between whether it's properly 'Aeris' or 'Aerith' here, as she was called neither in the game. She was a wholly different person who simply resembled Aeris. Jinx9117 00:30, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Actually, the Town Knave calls her Aeris:

Town Knave: "I've been looking for you, Aeris... Selling flowers for your mom? Good for you..." ("Zarghidas Trade City", Final Fantasy Tactics)

Whether or not it's a coincidence, we don't know. However, considering that Final Fantasy Tactics was released a little after FFVII came out and Square-Enix didn't have to worry about extremely rabid fans, I think it's safe to assume it's Aerith the way Aerith was in the KH series. It's not the same Aerith in FFVII, but it's still Aerith — just in an alternative universe. —Mirlen 21:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Name

I'm confused as to why there's such a distinct and adamant position about the spelling "Aerith." I don't know where you people learned Japanese from, but "th" does NOT exist in Japanese. The spelling of her name was supposed to be "Aeris" because she was supposed to be the "HEIRESS" of the Earth. Now, if you're going to argue that "Aerith" is pronounced the same way as "Aeris," that's an entirely moot point and it is better to spell it "Aeris" because romanticization of a lot of names can be changed around. In any case, I'd like a citation if you honestly believe that "Aerith" is the proper spelling.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.57.197.163 (talk • contribs).

Here's one, for starters. In general, the spelling "Aeris" has been retconned outside of the normal COMPILATION of FINAL FANTASY VII.—ウルタプ 01:57, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

According to this logic, shouldn't we be calling "Squall Leonhart" "Leon"? 76.21.27.63 15:10, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Throughout the Kingdom Hearts series, whether in instruction manuals, guide, Jiminy's journal, or character dialogue, the player is informed by some means that Leon is a taken name. IIRC, Squall chose to be called Leon after he failed to protect the Radiant Garden from the Heartless, and was set on remaining that way until it could be freed. (T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC))

"Aerith" is the correct spelling and its pronunciation under English (and many other languages') mechanics is the most correct pronunciation. Most, if not all, Final Fantasy main characters not only have names derived from non-Japanese sources, but are all spelled in Latin/Roman characters (I say this due to names like "Cait Sith", which is spelled in Scottish Gaelic). If official Square Enix sites aren't enough proof, all FF instruction manuals have the characters' names in Latin/Roman characters with their Japanese spellings (usually in the for-foreign-words katakana) underneath. Since the katakana replacement for "th" sounds at the end of words is "-su", that is where Aerith's "alternate" name originates (despite it appearing in Latin/Roman characters in the Japanese-riddled "developer's room", accessable via a game hacking device). (T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:23, 8 February 2007 (UTC))

I agree that the characters name should be written as Aeris in the articles derived from games where she was referred to as Aeris. Proper japanese translation or not, Aeris was how the characters name was written in the Final Fantasy 7 game that our country recieved, and as such any article discussing the character, plot importance, or actions taken within that game should use the title given to her -in that game-. It would take a simple preface at the top of the Aerith Gainsborough article stating that "Aerith, is alternatively spelled Aeris" and then the character would be referred to as she was properly titled game by game. There wouldn't be anyone coming to the article and getting confused because they aren't in on the current japan-hype, the "quotes" from the game wouldn't have to be incorrectly altered to contain a name they didn't have, and there wouldn't be anymore incorrect changes to the article from people who simply believe it incorrect. All in all it is the simplest solution to a rather far reaching problem. (Dean Ruel, February 9th 2007, 3:36 AM Eastern Standard Time)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.117.246.184 (talk) 08:35, 10 February 2007 (UTC).

Once Crisis Core is released in the US, UK and other English speaking countries, if Aeris' (I refuse to call her Aerith) name is said with an S as opposed to a TH, then I believe the wiki article should be changed accordingly. Although as I'm sure others noticed, her name is never mentioned in Advent Children, most likely because Square can't decide what it really should be. Nevertheless, if in Crisis Core it is pronounced with TH instead of S, then I stand corrected and will cease my argument. - Adzma 08:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Why do you people actually think that it is Aerith, I mean come on if thats the case then Chris is Chrith, and then Jason is Jathon. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!!??? And, why does everybody think that its AERITH just because Kingdom Hearts says so. Kingdom Hearts is just makin' the people who made Final Fantasy VII stupid! ITS AERIS GAINSBOROUGH AND IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, GO PLAY THE ORIGINAL FINAL FANTASY VII FOR THE PLAYSTATION YOURSELVES!!!!!!! WHO WANTS TO BE NAMED AERITH ANYWAY!? Ceres009 14:49 14 February 2007

...what the hell is this fucking attitude for?—ウルタプ 04:12, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure anybody wants to be named Aeris, either. (Although I know one sad guy who actually named his daughter that.) Aerith was the intended name and "エアリス" was used as the closest thing they could get to the proper pronunciation, but the translators didn't know that the su was a replacement for th, so we got Aeris instead. What is so fucking terrible about returning to the original intention? Do you intently prefer the ignorant transliteration from the same people who gave us "This guy are sick." and "Off course!"? ' ^{(Feeling chatty? ) (Edits!)} 15:06, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

A direct quote from above:

"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."
By this logic doesn't that mean the Cloud's page should be called Kuraudo Sutoraifu? And Sephiroth's Sefirosu? That's a highly large contradiction there. - Adzma 05:05, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

By all technicalities, the truest official names are Cloud, Sephiroth, and Aerith. Furthermore, some other official names are Frioniel (Firion), Leonhart (Leon), Gilbert (Edward), Cain (Kain), Tella (Tellah), Tina (Terra), Lock (Locke), Mash (Sabin), Cayenne (Cyan), Stragus (Strago), and Lockhart (Lockheart). However, all but the last of that string were changed for character spacing reasons, except for Terra and Sabin, which were 'cosmetic'. Because of FINAL FANTASY's primarily non-Japanese name sources, character names are most typically written in Latin/Roman-charactered languages (I say this for names like Rosa and Cait Sith, which are Spanish/Italian and Scottish Gaelix, respectively), with moonspeak variants seen in-game (typically in the for-non-native-words katakana system) conjoined. This is why you always hear Aerith's name said with the "s" noise over there rather than as truely intended. One might say that that's still only 'their' official naming, but with the release of Advent Children, "Lockheart" and "Aeris" have been ordained for ruin, to put it dramatically. I still insist, though, that since the only official English quote sources we have (the PS1 and PC versions) refer to her as "Aeris", the quotes taken from said games should credit the character by that default. Once (and we all know it's gonna come eventually) we get an English re-release, we can then replace the current quotes with the updated ones, replace the 'olde name' for good. T.J. Fuller, Jr. 09:11, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Aeris flows off the tongue more easily in English. Only a few obscure loanwords have syllables that end in a th. If the name isn't pronouncable in Japanese, and is needlessly difficult and ugly sounding in English, why is everyone so adamant we use it? -Gulp Dratsum 05:09, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, it sounding better is your opinion and is subjective. Because it is subjective and will vary from person to person, we have to go by other standards. People seem to be adamant about using Aerith because that is how her name has been officially portrayed in English and Japanese in every game after FFVII and FF Tactics. Since Wikipedia favors official names, we've been leaning towards that. However, Aeris is used in all instances of FFVII and FFT. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 06:00, 3 November 2007 (UTC))

I didn't say it sounded better. I said it's more easily pronounced by native speakers of English. That too could be considered subjective but I look at it as being akin to whether or not accent marks should be used in non-English names. How many English words end in a "th" sound? -Gulp Dratsum 08:46, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me, I meant "how many words end with the same sound as "Aerith?" -Gulp Dratsum 09:12, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, unfortunately the ease with which it can be pronounced isn't really a factor when determining which name to use for articles. Regardless of the number of similar sounding words, Aerith is the official spelling using Latin characters. It is even spelled that way on the Japanese Square Enix sites check out the character section of Crisis Core site and scroll over Aerith. Because it is the official spelling of the name and has become the most commonly used name of her, that is the version we use on Wikipedia per WP:NCON. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 14:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC))

Official Square-enix page

Not meaning to spark up more controversy, but has anybody checked the official square-enix page to see the spellings of "AeriS" whatever her name may be? Here is a quote from before "it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name" - if her 'official' name was Aerith, would Square/Enix not rectify this website: http://na.square-enix.com/games/ff7/aeris-char.html ?? Seriously people, this is the software company's website. Why would they not change it to Aerith if that were the correct name? Dashboardy 22:53, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

They're pretty much only using it in COMPILATION of FINAL FANTASY VII stuff (i.e. "Aerith" in Kingdom Hearts). Seeing as the newer installments of the compilation almost never actually mention Aerith's name, I guess it's not too necessary to retcon and "Aeris" is already so well-established over here… (and you know that site's all the way back from FFVII's NA release? Square Enix hasn't updated any of there old pages…at all.)—ウルタプ 03:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I have never played the other games - so you are saying she is called Aerith in KH, and other FF7 extensions, and only referred to as "Aeris" in FF7 itself? Why then is the intro "is a female protagonist of the role playing game Final Fantasy VII"? The intro makes it seem as though Aeris' character's main role is in FF7, and not KH or other games... this would strike me as reason for either changing the intro, or using Aeris rather than Aerith. Also someone gave 'proof' that her name was Aerith by showing an advert/poster of her name spelt Aerith. I fail to see how this is adequate in choosing a name, seeing as how for every "aerith" advert there is also an "aeris" advert (as well as on the official website) Regardless of whether they have updated it or not, the spelling on the software company's website is "Aeris". However, if in the majority of other games she is referred to as "aerith" I will concede as long as the introduction is necessarily changed. Dashboardy 04:50, 5 February 2007 (UTC) Dashboardy

Maybe we should just make a note somewhere on the page about her name being different in certain installments? It doesn't seem like that big a deal to me--it's obviously Aerith because Aerith has now been used twice or three times as many as Aeris, and more recently. Aeris is relevant to FFVII the game. Anything else is Aerith, or at least from what I've seen. Make a note of it, and leave it 'Aerith' or 'Aeris' in the respective places. At least that's my opinion. (KyrieSanctus 06:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC))

Quotes from Final Fantasy VII (NA Version)

I know that the accepted official name of the character as a whole is "Aerith", but when using quotes taken from a specific version of the game (in this case, presumably the North American PC version), shouldn't we use the default names given in said version? (T.J. Fuller, Jr. 12:25, 8 February 2007 (UTC))

Agree. (KyrieSanctus 06:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC))

Agree. Pomte 21:24, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

Agree. Dashboardy 14:55, 16 February 2007 (UTC)Dashboardy

Agree.—ウルタプ 00:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Name confusion

"People are aware in FFVII English localisations Aerith's name is Aeris but it is policy on the English Wikipedia to use the official name, and Aeris was merely the official English name."

I'm wondering why the following articles don't follow the mentioned policy:

• Balrog (Street Fighter)
• M. Bison
• Vega (Street Fighter)

Could it be due to the Naming conventions? Just a thought. _{Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 14:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)}

TO CLEAR THIS UP (This is for other editors who are misusing that quote, as well): Aeris was the FIRST official English name. It has been retconned in later media (including Advent Children, and so on) as Aerith. Aerith is the official name now. Yes, many people will only know the Aeris name, but Wikipedia should be accurate, and the precise name is Aerith now. Any more questions? Nique talk 12:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't clear things up as much as you think. Aerith is the official spelling for new works. This may include the general 'ff7 universe' that they've been extending. However, within the context of the original FF7, 'Aeris' is the one and only official english spelling for the name. Bladestorm 13:57, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Not really. The one and only official name is now Aerith. Yes, the original game itself still says, and will always say (since you can't go into the discs and edit it), Aeris, but that doesn't mean it's correct. Nique talk 18:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Show me where in Advent Children is the name "Aerith" mentioned, and I doubt Kingdom Hearts is considered canon. I also don't think that using an unreleased/untranslated game as a source counts as proof of "Aerith" being the original name. Unregistered (76.21.27.63) (talk) 09:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, if you got your hands on the English boxed set, the script included lists Aerith, not Aeris. The name may not be mentioned in the movie specifically, but it was changed. Anyone else with the boxed set can confirm this, as well. Also, Kingdom Hearts may not be canon to the storyline, but the names are. All recent media released have listed Aerith, not Aeris, which means that Aerith is now her official name. Nique talk 14:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, the English voice actor and the credits (both English and Japanese) for Advent Children say "Aerith." The article should clearly remain at Aerith Gainsborough. 15:28, 20 March 2007 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.209.131.242 (talk) 20:30, 20 March 2007 (UTC).

If you wanna get technical, the Japanese pronounce it as "Aeris" with a "u" added to the end. And if KH names are canon, why don't we all start calling Squall "Leon"? Hell, if ANYTHING from KH is canon, that'd call for a redoing of alot of FF articles.

The Japanese pronunciation (if you'd take a look at the Romanji spelling at the front of the article) is roughly "Ay-ah-ree-suu", but said quickly enough and with variant emphasis to sound roughly like the character's most official spelling. Note that many Final Fantasy names are not Japanese in origin, but must have a Japanese (usually katakana) version to allow for non-English-speaking Japanese to say it. To clear up the "Leon" accusation, Jiminy writes in-game that his true name is Squall (how he learned that, I do not know), and that "Leon" is only a placeholder name until he can restore the Radiant Garden. However, that note about using the official name bothers me in that Final Fantasy characters, namely from the SNES era, are given their Japanese last names with their North American (and other such places) first names. IIRC, no officially licensed material gives last names for non-Japanese releases, so the characters ought to have their Japanese names (many of which are as or more Western than their Western counterparts) for clarity. T.J. Fuller, Jr. 18:56, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

It's Aeris in FFVII

Yeah, let's debate this once again. I think the section about FFVII should spell the character's name "Aeris" instead of "Aerith", because that's how it's spelt in the English localization of the game. Wikipedia follows an out of universe perspective, so the fact that her name is spelt differently in other material does not change the fact that it's spelt "Aeris" in FFVII. Thus, sections dealing with FFVII should precisely deal with FFVII and not an in-universe "canon". And although what is valid in an article is not necessarily valid in another article, my reasoning is nevertheless heavily supported by blatantly similar cases, namely the Final Fantasy Tactics articles, which use the spellings Bunanza, Queklain, Adramelk, etc., instead of the now "canonical" spellings of Bunansa, Cù Chulainn, Adrammelech, etc., of the more recent Ivalice games. Kariteh 14:20, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Somewhere there's the discussion that led to fixing the spelling in Final Fantasy VII. It was from around the time the FF7 article went to WP:FAC. Most of my arguments there are valid here, as well. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Lets leave it as Aerith, actually. The only place it's Aeris is the NA version of FF7, in the JP version of FF7, in KHearts and KHearts2, in Advent Children, in Maiden Who Travels the Planet, Before Crisis, Crisis Core, etc, it's Aerith. This may be the English Wikipedia, but since she's Aerith in other English things than just FF7, it should be 'th'. --PresN 21:18, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Ordinarily, I would agree with Kariteh on this issue but I feel that it would be unnecessarily confusing to suddenly switch to and from the "th" just for the FF7 section. The article should state early on (like it does now in the first line) that it was "Aeris" for FF7 but maintain consistency throughout the rest of the article with "Aerith". Axem Titanium 00:51, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

If it's confusing, it's because that's the way the games were translated. What would you want the article to state? Something like...

"Her name is Aeris in the game, but to be consistent this article will disregard that fact and use Aerith even when referring to Final Fantasy VII, even though it's not spelt this way in the game"

...? That just doesn't sound right. It might be confusing to use both spellings, but there's no way to avoid it, we can't change the script of the game. Plus, we already use both spellings since we must use quotes from the game as references. I know some people don't like to take other articles as examples in a debate, but consider this one: Dragon Quest. It's confusing to have Dragon Warrior I, DWII, DWIII, DWIV, then to not have DWV and DWVI but to have Dragon Quest V and Dragon Quest VI instead, and then again Dragon Warrior VII, and finally Dragon Quest VIII... All these switching back and forth and missing numbers are a mess, and it would be nice and simplier to use "Dragon Quest" for every installment, but we can't because the English Wikipedia must use English names despite the fact that translations overall are always a mess with Japanese role-playing games (see also Xenogears and its Engrish Bible).

Also here's the link to the discussion mentioned by AMIB for reference. Kariteh 07:37, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Aerith/Aeris inconsistency

I recently made an edit changing most Aeris' to Aerith that was reverted. I understand that there is an argument over whether Aerith or Aeris should be used as the correct name, but I feel that, in the way that the introduction is worded and the article itself is titled, Aerith is the most common spelling used, however, throughout the article, the spelling goes back and forth. I feel like, whichever form is chosen, there should be consistency throughout the article, except when explaining and quoting from translations using either specific name. It's just that, if the article is called Aerith, but she is talked about in some sections exclusively as Aeris, I feel like that could be improved. Closetoeuphoria 02:31, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

The article is definitely consistent currently. There is a character named Aeris in Final Fantasy VII and Final Fantasy Tactics, and the same character is named Aerith in other materials and games. The article is in line with this fact and clearly states it in its Development section. Kariteh 09:41, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Redirect

This article needs to be redirected/renamed to "Aeris Gainsborough" ASAP. Under the wiki guidelines we must use the English translation name, Aeris, first and mention that she's named Aerith in the Japanese. Parjay ► Talk 19:42, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

There are many who agree with you, myself included, but it is a pointless, and failing battle. No matter how many times the article is changed to Aeris it is constantly reverted to Aerith. Fans of the original game are being forced to accept the new continuity. Adzma 14:56, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Nope, Wiki guidelines say Aerith is correct. In case you haven't been paying attention, that is her official name as of the first Kingdom Hearts, and not to mention was how it was romanized before there ever was an FFVII in English. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 11:35, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect, under the guidlines we have to use Aeris. Under the guidelines we need to use the most widespread recognisable name, and FF7 with "Aeris" sold millions, and has been out for ten years. Parjay ► Talk 14:21, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Didn't realize the two comments here were almost a month old...but anyway (and this is just rehashing everything said a million times, so what's one more?), how do you know it's the most recognizable name? The KH series, in fact, has sold more than FFVII FFT, and when you add Advent Children, the number is even higher. As has been said many times, the knowledge of the biggest fans do not in fact reflect the knowledge of the masses in these things. Remember, we're NOT talking about FFVII alone here, but the character as a whole. Plus, I would say, considering it's been this way for at least two years on WP, the consensus pretty much leans toward Aerith. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ 14:38, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Under the guidelines, it's not. Aeris has been named the longest in America, we have to use that. Maybe in ten years we can switch it to Aerith. Parjay ► Talk 14:53, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Actually, WP:NCON states the "most common use of a name takes precedence", not the name with the longest use. With numerous new titles from Square Enix using "Aerith" and other websites, like IMDB, ANN, and some fansites, using it as well, it appears that "Aerith" has become more widespread. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 15:23, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

That's my point though, Aeris has been the most common, its been around the longest, for ten years. You'll be hard pressed to find that "Aerith" is more common due to the longevity. Parjay ► Talk 16:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I understand that Aeris has been used longer and that it was the most common name. But that does not make it the current most commonly used name. Especially since more official titles have been released that use Aerith. It has been in official use for five years; Kingdom Hearts has been out in the US since 9/2002. That and a number of third party websites have begun to use it as well. (Guyinblack25 ^talk 16:46, 10 October 2007 (UTC))

Still, that doesn't make it the most un-common name, either. Well I'll look into the numbers and see what can be made from it; which is the most common, we shall see. Parjay ► Talk 16:52, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

(un-indent) I'd like to point out that it isn't just the de facto common name. It's not like the official name of "Aerith" counts for jack squat. Axem Titanium 00:59, 11 October 2007 (UTC)