Talk:2021 Masters (snooker)

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 00:24, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

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• Comment or view
• Article history

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• ... that Kyren Wilson used a lighter on his cue stick at the 2021 Masters? Source: https://www.eurosport.co.uk/snooker/the-masters/2020-2021/masters-2021-never-seen-it-kyren-wilson-uses-lighter-to-fix-dodgy-cue-tip-against-gary-wilson_sto8061191/story.shtml

• Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Codakia orbicularis
• Comment: Really want to say that he set fire to his cue tip (as that's what he's doing.) I'll keep an eye out for better sourcing.

Event is still in process, so might find more hooks soon. 5x expanded by Lee Vilenski (talk). Self-nominated at 22:24, 10 January 2021 (UTC).

• @Lee Vilenski: Having looked at the source, if you did want to say he set his cue tip on fire as a hook, I would be happy to support and review that as a hook because to me " burning the tip" does mean he set it on fire. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:53, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

• In that case The C of E Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 17:47, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

• ALT1 ...that Kyren Wilson set fire to his cue stick at the 2021 Masters?
  • Date and length fine. Hook is sourced inline and I am approving ALT1. QPQ done with no close paraphrasing. I would suggest as it is an ongoing event, we hold off running it until it finishes to let it settle down a bit. Good to go. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 17:58, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Accuracy

Lee Vilenski, regarding these two edits,[7][8] the article currently says:

Steve Davis referred to Yan as "naive" and that he needed a "flying start and get his tail up" to win the match in the second session.

However, the facts, as reported by the inline source, are as follows:

1. The source says "Possessing a solid and unspectacular style of play, Yan displayed some naive shot selection at times in the opening session, but his calm demeanour never changes and he recovered to shock the heavy pre-match favourite." In this sentence, some of his shots were criticized as naive, and nowhere is this criticism attributed to Steve Davis.
2. The above quoted words "flying start and get his tail up" do not appear anywhere in the source text. Nothing remotely similar is said; the words "flying" or "tail" do not appear at all, much less attributed to Davis.
3. The only words attributed to Davis in the source are:

Even though there was no crowd, the tension can arrive on a snooker table between two players, the pressures are still there. You have to pot the balls and put the last one in to kill off frames.

"We see it so often that players bottle it under pressure but fantastic for Yan, he played so well.

"There will be millions of people watching back in China who will know he has a chance at the World Championship coming up.

"I was impressed with his temperament, his nerve and that was as mature a performance we've seen since we saw John Higgins win here.

So, virtually nothing in the disputed sentence corresponds to what the source actually said. GregorB (talk) 15:29, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

It looks like the BBC article was updated at the end of the final and the wording doesn't now appear in the article. You can see Davis's comment here [9] at 16:17 on 17 Jan, so that link could be used to support the quote. --Bcp67 (talk) 16:27, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Check the archived copy, which is the one that was being sourced. These news sources are quite often usurped like this. The archived copy IS in the source provided. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 18:02, 19 January 2021 (UTC)

Internet archive is down at the moment, but AGF on that, and problem solved. The statement caught my attention because it seemed a bit disparaging, and it deviated quite a bit in tone from Davis' final remarks - but that's not too surprising really, because Yan was trailing at the time. GregorB (talk) 08:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• Personally, I can do without statements like "Steve Davis said ...", even if they are sourced. Such comments are ok on the back page of a newspaper, but we're meant to be an encyclopedia. Nigej (talk) 09:28, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• I'm not sure I agree. Having colour describing the matches is quite suitable. We would have what the players say about themselves in a summary and having expert opinions regarding how the play was is significantly better than us writing how the session played out in wikipedia's voice. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 12:30, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• However, per WP:UNDUE, just cherry-picking a few quotes from Steve Davis doesn't really give an unbiased view of things. How do we cover all experts' opinions; just impossible. Better to have none. IMO Nigej (talk) 12:41, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• Hardly cherry picking, considering quotes are used throughout the article in this way. It's hardly a minority viewpoint, which is what UNDUE refers to. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 14:04, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• Of course expert commentary is relevant, and there is no doubt Steve Davis is an expert. What is slightly concerning to me here is whether reducing his comments to a single dismissive statement is actually representative of his views or not (cf. quote given above: "impressed with his temperament, his nerve"). GregorB (talk) 15:17, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• Exactly. If Steve Davis had written a book on the Masters or Yan Bingtao, then his considered comments would perhaps be worth noting. But surely a few spur-of-the-moment throw-away remarks made during hours of commentary shouldn't be here. Nigej (talk) 16:35, 21 January 2021 (UTC)
• The fact these were removed from the final version of the article also suggests they are of lesser importance. GregorB (talk) 19:52, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

• I mean we can remove these, but I feel a comment about the first session, and a similar one after the event, saying how he was impressed with his temperament is quite representative of the final. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 21:27, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:2021 Masters (snooker)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: The Rambling Man (talk · contribs) 17:07, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Comments

• "The event invited the top 16 players " -> "Sixteen players were invited to the event"
  • Changed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Maybe you can say "The World Professional Billiards and Snooker Association " did the inviting. (the infobox has World Snooker as well?)
  • No source actually makes this claim. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Then merge the broadcast/behind closed doors sentences.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Worth linking "frame" in the lead.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• " The highest break of the event " did that also receive financial award?
  • Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "invitational snooker tournament ... invited to participate" isn't that what an "invitational" means?
  • Reworded Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "The 2021 Masters is the second" is or was? Check tenses.
  • Working. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "The 16 highest-ranked players according to the world rankings after the 2020 UK Championship in December 2020 were invited to the event.[5] [6] " didn't you just say something like that already? And no spaces between rrefs.
  • I've removed the first version. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• You have a different link for COVID-19 here.
  • I don't see an issue particularly the first link is more about the restrictions, whilst when we talk about in the body, it's about the disease itself. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes but to the reader it looks the same, the text after the pipe is the same but the link is different, that's misleading. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:43, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
      • Sure, I've repiped the first one. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• " Joe Perry replaced Trump in the draw, while Gary Wilson replaced Lisowski.[7] Anthony McGill, ranked 17th, would have been the first reserve player but declined to travel to the event,[8] whilst Barry Hawkins, ranked 18th tested positive for COVID-19.[9]" I would put this the other way round, and say that 17th declined, 18th was positive for COVID, so 19th and 20th (presumably??) played instead.
  • Good idea. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• No need to link major geographical locations like "London".
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "played without spectators" link to behind closed doors as you did in the lead.
  • done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• " met the remaining eight participants" how were they placed into the draw, randomly or on their ranking?
  • added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "first time by sports betting company Betfred" might be nice to say they replaced last season's sponsors Dafabet?
  • done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:11, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Lead: total prize pool of £750,000, infobox: Total prize fund £725,000, prose: The prize fund for the event was £725,000.
  • Fixed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "Gary Wilson in the opening match. Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, made his debut at" merge, e.g. "Gary Wilson, world ranking number 18, in the opening match, who was making his debut at"?
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "competing against John Higgins for four days" in practice or another tournament?
  • Added Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "Post match," -> "After the match"
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "Defending champion Stuart Bingham defeated Shaun Murphy 6–3" full stop.
  • Caption headers always throw me. Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "The first quarter-final was" no need to repeat quarter-final.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "professional competitive match between the two since they turned professional" probably don't need the first "professional".
  • removed first usage. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• spellbinding - put that in quotes.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "whilst" -> while.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• " Stuart Bingham won" no need for the first name.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "Ken Doherty, the 1997 world champion, commented" you already introduced Ken, so move that world champ stuff there, and no need to repeat his first name here.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "He also won in 1999.)[59] " don't see the need for this to be in parentheses, just merge it nicely.
  • It's not something I added, it doesn't really matter in the context. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "a re-spotted black. After a" overlinked.
  • removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "safety" link.
  • Linked Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• I just noticed last year's article is featured. Surprised no-one asked you to describe the scoring mechanism of snooker along with all rules...
  • I dodged a bullet. I am awaiting someone to expect a note on every page that needs to explain that snooker is a cue sport... a sport played with a cue, a cue being a piece of wood. :P Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• "by John Higgins in his quarter-final match with Ronnie O'Sullivan" why the first names again? And all the players are overlinked here, no?
  • Removed Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:28, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Refs 5 and 58 need en-dashes, not hyphens.
  • Done Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Ref 30 why not Eurosport UK? Not sure why that's not just Eurosport throughout to be honest.
  • Yeah, Eurosport is better. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• BBC refs are mostly BBC Sport, not italics.
  • Sorry, to confirm, this should be as a publisher, not as the work? Or, did you want them in italics? Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
    • I follow our article usage, i.e. BBC Sport. But either way, just be consistent. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:45, 12 March 2021 (UTC)

That's about it for a first pass. On hold. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 14:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

• • • • Should now be fully consistent. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:53, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
• Hi TRM, let me know if there is more to look at. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski ^{(talk • contribs)} 15:34, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Lee, just a couple of responses above. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 15:46, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
  • Okeydokes, happy to promote. The Rambling Man (Stay alert! Control the virus! Save lives!!!!) 16:17, 12 March 2021 (UTC)